Chat : 10 Jan 2022

Video and transcript: https://futuretextlab.info/2022/01/12/10th-of-january-2022-2/

16:05:33 From Mark Anderson : The herding cats phase…
16:05:44 From Frode Hegland : Yes!
16:05:59 From borud : Bjørn Borud
16:06:01 From Frode Hegland : Bjørn Borud
16:20:05 From Peter Wasilko : There are so many to choose from!
16:20:33 From Peter Wasilko : I love FTL thought, it is the best acronym ever.
16:20:39 From Frode Hegland : 🙂
16:20:55 From Frode Hegland : FTL: Future Text Lab, for Bjørn 🙂
16:22:39 From Peter Wasilko : I really worry about sim sickness.
16:22:59 From Peter Wasilko : I’d hate to puke on my Mac Keyboard.
16:25:06 From Peter Wasilko : This sounds like a job for a lawyer!
16:26:47 From Frode Hegland : 120 refresh helps a lot Peter 🙂
16:26:55 From Frode Hegland : Saw your email, you make good points.
16:27:14 From Frode Hegland : Oculus to me is simply the easiest way to get to try these things as a group
16:27:23 From Adam Wern : For, motion sickness is not solved.
16:27:30 From Adam Wern : For me
16:27:38 From Frode Hegland : Not entirely no, agree, but better right?
16:28:09 From Mark Anderson : I recall how Night Vision Goggles (yeah – used for work back in my first job) were nausea-inducing due to laggy/slow update. I’m sure they, like VR are much better now
16:28:20 From Adam Wern : When I’m stationary it’s perfectly fine, looking around. Moving is really rough
16:28:35 From Brandel Zachernuk : Motion sickness while undergoing *simulated* motion is going to continue to be a problem as well, but hopefully we don’t need to do too much for using Excel
16:29:44 From Frode Hegland : ‘Simulated’. Yes, good point
16:30:18 From Peter Wasilko : I have a 3-D mouse and I think that might be a good intermedia point, since it lets me manipulate my viewpoint with 6 degrees of freedom while still working off my stable fixed position screen and I don’t think anyone as really experiment much with what a 6df controller can let you do interacting with 2-D
16:30:48 From Peter Wasilko : *experimented
16:30:51 From Adam Wern : Interestingly, sitting down while “being moved” is worse for me than standing – so no rally for me
16:31:01 From Frode Hegland : Exactly Adam
16:31:33 From Mark Anderson : Have beed reading Fischer’s “History of Writing” (https://www.amazon.co.uk/History-Writing-Steven-Roger-Fischer/dp/1789143497) . Interesting how Chinese/Chinese-derived and Meso-American scripts encode language in such a different way.  What does a Latin script only encoded data world leave on the cutting-room floor in terms of comprehension and representation.
16:32:41 From Peter Wasilko : I’d love to explore Mark’s library via telepresence!
16:33:53 From Peter Wasilko : I also have a Steno Keyboard I need to master.
16:35:19 From Peter Wasilko : Crying!
16:36:41 From Alan Laidlaw : Motor babbling?
16:36:47 From Frode Hegland : Cool right?!
16:37:00 From Frode Hegland : In the UK we call that ‘Top Gear’…
16:37:01 From borud : “It’s not done yet”
16:37:10 From borud : “Don’t care, ship it down the birth canal”
16:37:11 From Mark Anderson : For Brandel. A couple of books re digital reading. You might already know, but if not: “Reading and Writing the electronic Book” by Cathy Marshall. (2010)// “Designing of Digital Reading” by Pearson/Buchanan/Thimbleby (2014).
16:38:21 From Mark Anderson : Learning affect – fake it ‘till you make it? For some of us  with ASD it’s a life-long process.
16:38:28 From Adam Wern : VR feels similar, trying to find the how interface affects you and your representation. Random firing 
16:39:11 From Peter Wasilko : Haptic gloves too
16:39:45 From Brandel Zachernuk : Yes exactly! There’s a lot of randomness to the interaction, and a lot of re-determining what is meaningful. It’s a potent metaphor for a lot of what has to happen, both for users of an interface and creators
16:41:17 From Brandel Zachernuk : https://www.trouva.com/products/suck-uk-world-timeline-tape
16:42:22 From Adam Wern : We have a model here in Sweden: http://www.swedensolarsystem.se/en/
16:42:46 From Frode Hegland : That is PERFECT Adam
16:43:52 From Peter Wasilko : Or how about crop marks on the printed page to help an AR system slot in generated overlays?
16:46:06 From Brandel Zachernuk : https://codepen.io/zachernuk/full/WNGOgmE
16:47:12 From Peter Wasilko : YESSS!!!!!!!!
16:47:56 From Frode Hegland : Empty so far: https://futuretextlab.info
16:48:30 From Mark Anderson : Byrne’s Euclide: https://www.c82.net/euclid/
16:48:41 From Frode Hegland : Yes Mark… bought already…
16:48:43 From Frode Hegland : 🙂
16:50:21 From Peter Wasilko : I can save you money!   https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_First_Six_Books_of_the_Elements_of_E/HdRbAAAAQAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0
16:50:36 From Peter Wasilko : Read for free!
16:54:04 From Mark Anderson : Incremental formalisation FTW!  This is why I do my desk work in Tinderbox. Also +1 for fountain pen.
16:58:37 From Mark Anderson : Amen, forcing premature formalisation (which box to put things in) makes me very uncomfortable, even if that is much of everyday work.
16:59:41 From Alan Laidlaw : Agreed that free guy was unwatchable
16:59:43 From Alan Laidlaw : sorry
17:01:20 From borud : (Mentioned earlier.  Travel from Sun to Jupiter at light speed: https://youtu.be/2BmXK1eRo0Q)
17:03:01 From Frode Hegland : WordPress but have to write why it’s there and then build views for WordPress
17:04:52 From borud : https://www.tagr.company/ is the company that is trying to make this wiki/database/spreadsheet thing that supports incremental structuring of data
17:06:57 From Peter Wasilko : If head scans of the front and back covers and spines of all of our books, plus their length, width, and heigh dimensions we could model them in VR.  Blender has an architecture plug-in with a Book Model Generator we could script too!
17:07:32 From Peter Wasilko : * If we had.   (That was an auto spell correct-o.)
17:11:44 From Peter Wasilko : I call this sort of issue (the need to get things and and out of an environment for people to buy into creating contents in it) The Principle of Severability
17:12:30 From Peter Wasilko : I don’t have the self cite to the first time I put that idea out handy though.
17:12:47 From Peter Wasilko : I think it was in one of my contributed book chapters.
17:13:10 From Alan Laidlaw : Where can I find these VR books, Brandel? Didn’t come up in basic search
17:14:03 From Adam Wern : Re: Money for “this”. Also finding the “Values”.
17:14:57 From Brandel Zachernuk : They are these:  – just a procedural book generator, https://zachernuk.neocities.org/autobook/, I made a tweet thread about it here: https://twitter.com/zachernuk/status/1457767271418327045
17:15:02 From Frode Hegland : 🙂
17:15:20 From Peter Wasilko : Tinderbox would be a great non-groupware tool for us to use, especially vis-a-vis incremental formalization, and its XML format can be scraped for data.
17:16:04 From Brandel Zachernuk : This is the Gutenberg gook one: https://twitter.com/zachernuk/status/1464699404586151938 – it lets you build interactive 3D models of books from Gutenberg texts
17:16:35 From Brandel Zachernuk : This one is figuring out how to do physically-based rendering from CSS: https://twitter.com/zachernuk/status/1460809023192645638
17:17:30 From Brandel Zachernuk : One I haven’t posted is this experience of reading “Understanding Media”, video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7C5yOr2bnI and experience here: https://zachernuk.neocities.org/2021/deep-reader/
17:18:45 From Mark Anderson : @brandel love the Gutenberg book viz demo!
17:19:47 From Peter Wasilko : Amazing work, @brandel !
17:20:14 From borud : The Goodreads app allows scanning the bar code of your books to add them into your “library”
17:20:14 From Alan Laidlaw : Option for short term group library: Good reads. I believe it has an api that Brandel needs
17:20:29 From Mark Anderson : Re books. Often knowing *why* it is in the library might be the most useful thing.  ‘Like’ is often a disconnect with usefulness (e.g. hard to read but has important info).
17:22:05 From Mark Anderson : Thanks for info re Goodreads, I should give it a try.  Guess I’ve always held back by the judgmental naming of the site. (our ‘goods’ may not align).
17:23:12 From Mark Anderson : Have to see if I can get Bookends (my Ref Mgr) to ‘talk’ to the Goodreads API.
17:23:52 From borud : Finally figured out how to put up hand.  So much for being a “high tech” person 🙂
17:24:00 From Frode Hegland : 🙂
17:24:05 From Peter Wasilko : 🙂
17:25:21 From Peter Wasilko : I am on my 3rd cup.
17:25:46 From Brandel Zachernuk : This is a sample of the stuff my page has extracted (time is relative to the start of my recording, I think absolute local time / UTC would be better)
17:25:47 From Brandel Zachernuk :
15:59:Adam Wern
17:25:56 From Frode Hegland : Very cool Brandel
17:26:46 From Peter Wasilko : DEVONThink is your friend if you want an everything bucket.
17:27:36 From Alan Laidlaw : Completely in the association info camp, Bjorn.
17:27:55 From Alan Laidlaw: https://twitter.com/DrYohanJohn/status/1480147162348638208?s=20
17:27:59 From Mark Anderson : Yes, DEVONthink is nice, and well integrated on the macOS.
17:28:19 From Peter Wasilko : And it can do deep links with BookEnds and Tinderbox
17:28:55 From Mark Anderson : Me too , re info assoc.  As bourn out by my back-of-envelope storage.
17:29:00 From Peter Wasilko : Err Bookends. Minding my captialization
17:29:08 From Adam Wern : Like this: a sidenote on clipboard & short-term memory: https://kinduff.com/2022/01/04/the-weight-of-the-clipboard/
17:29:45 From Peter Wasilko : Does anyone remember Multiclip circa System 7?
17:29:56 From Peter Wasilko : Or ThoughtPatterns?
17:32:05 From Peter Wasilko : The Festival of Artisanal Software ends tomorrow. Best price of the year on Tinderbox. Stop by, and get a great price on The Tinderbox Way as well lots of other terrific software. Bookends, DEVONthink, Scrivener, Hook: tools you need.
17:32:30 From Peter Wasilko : WinterFest 2021: https://www.artisanalSoftwareFestival.com/
17:32:39 From Brandel Zachernuk : Max Krieger’s ‘Voiceliner’ is a neat experiment with reconciling utterances and speech with the place it occurred: https://a9.io/voiceliner/
17:33:01 From Mark Anderson : Amen, re Software festival. Have/use most of them.
17:35:16 From Peter Wasilko : @Alan great survey of our options
17:37:31 From Peter Wasilko : @Brandel, introduce us to your cat!
17:37:41 From Alan Laidlaw : Thanks!
17:37:51 From Alan Laidlaw : And thanks for the links, Brandel
17:40:05 From Mark Anderson : n the notion of different scripts, this came up in another convo today: https://ide.wy-lang.org/?file=clock Not for what’s being done but (as a non-Chinese speaker) the degree of separation this creates.
17:41:19 From Frode Hegland : Please Alan 🙂 Miro!
17:41:55 From Brandel Zachernuk : Pick-and-Drop (UIST’97, CHI’98) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFw9aMubL-Y
17:43:23 From Alan Laidlaw : On that note, currently reading Creative Selection. Love it! Thanks for the suggestion
17:43:49 From Mark Anderson : My copy still in post…
17:46:59 From Frode Hegland : Works in VR: https://miro.com/blog/miro-for-meta-quest-2/
17:50:27 From Brandel Zachernuk : That recognition of other people solving something or having a problem elsewhere is called “Lead user research”, popularized by the Sloan business school at MIT, though it’s a stretch to say that they invented them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_user
17:50:40 From Peter Wasilko : There was some interesting hypertext work on Visual Parsing back in the day.
17:51:16 From borud : BRandel: what was the OCR technology you talked about?
17:51:39 From Peter Wasilko : Zotero Group for citations
17:52:04 From Brandel Zachernuk : It’s Tesseract, running locally on the browser: https://github.com/naptha/tesseract.js
17:54:20 From Peter Wasilko : I’d also recommend Eric Von Hippel’s work.  http://web.mit.edu/evhippel/www/democ.htm
17:54:53 From Peter Wasilko : A static landing page with links to any live systems we use
17:54:55 From Adam Wern : Was the .info domain the only one available?
17:55:11 From Frode Hegland : No… didn’t check others…
17:55:11 From Adam Wern : .org .com at reasonable price?
17:55:18 From Mark Anderson : BTW, my earlier comments weren’t meant to sound dismissive of Miro – lest they sound otherwise.
17:55:34 From Adam Wern : .lab, is that a thing?
17:55:46 From Frode Hegland : Could not find one
17:56:11 From Brandel Zachernuk : .io has been used to mean that as well, implicitly ‘experimental’
17:56:26 From Frode Hegland : True
17:58:05 From Adam Wern : Personally, I’m interested in doing a minimal metaverse/docuverse – linked spaces in 3d
17:58:39 From Frode Hegland : YES Adam indeed!
17:58:55 From borud : Brandel: ah.  I’ve used Tesseract from Go.  Funny story. Had many thousands scanned contracts for cell tower land lease contracts which a bunch of lawyers were going to go through manually to categorise them.  I spent 2 hours writing and running the code that sorted them into N categories

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