Chat : 14 Jan 2022

16:09:01 From Mark Anderson : https://goodreads.com/mwra
16:10:14 From Peter Wasilko : It looks like it need one to set up an account to view the list.
16:10:20 From Peter Wasilko : *needs
16:11:36 From Mark Anderson : Argh! Another reason why we can’t have nice things.
16:12:13 From Mark Anderson : My earlier Amazon ‘likes’ based lists has the same content.
16:12:16 From Peter Wasilko : I think a Zotero Group might be the way to go.
16:12:37 From Peter Wasilko : At least vis-a-vis sharing citation until we get our own back-end datastore in place.
16:17:48 From Peter Wasilko : We should think about a typographic look and feel to make the cite more futuristic feeling: https://typesetinthefuture.com
16:18:30 From Frode Hegland : VERY concerned about messing with WordPress look and feel at this point. Hopefully we can figure out useful functionality first…
16:24:07 From Mark Anderson : I like a pared back presentation – let the content and ideas shine rather than cool viz design.
16:25:34 From Mark Anderson : For late joiners, my ‘research books’ list on goodreads: https://goodreads.com/mwra I’ve since discovered that apparently you need an account there to read it. Oh FFS.
16:25:44 From Brandel Zachernuk : Ooh thank you Mark
16:25:57 From Alan Laidlaw : Lol mark
16:27:06 From Mark Anderson : As I used Amazon ingest to GR, it includes all my trashy Sci Fi reading. Oh well. Privacy is so 20C. 🙄
16:29:51 From Peter Wasilko : Web Components are our friend on the prototyping side.
16:30:18 From Alan Laidlaw : Agreed Adam. I see newsletter as more fodder for further text epxeriments
16:37:48 From Frode Hegland : Getting ice for coffee so walking and listening…
16:39:09 From Peter Wasilko : @Frode, we could just pick a more distinct Google Web Font than the WordPress default and drop it in via css, no heavy lifting or anything we can’t swap out in a second.
16:39:19 From Alan Laidlaw : Pls help me w newsletter, Rafael?
16:39:38 From Peter Wasilko : https://fonts.google.com
16:40:21 From Alan Laidlaw : Excellent point
16:40:36 From Frode Hegland : What fonts would you prefer Peter? I think many can easily be a bit of a gimmick…
16:40:42 From Frode Hegland : I like Times and Helvetica !
16:41:20 From Alan Laidlaw : I didn’t quite grok the VR ownership email
16:41:37 From Frode Hegland : We’ll have to discuss in group then Alan! 🙂
16:42:18 From Alan Laidlaw : But can’t devote time to crawling through email. This sadly applies to most all other media. Haven’t read FoT book at all. Ive listened to half of digital planet
16:42:47 From Peter Wasilko : I would go for one of the “Super Families” with Serif, Sans, and Mono variants, so if we want monospace code we can use the mono version, and the sans version for menus, and serif for body copy.
16:44:10 From Peter Wasilko : Recursive is a really interesting variable sans font that has the same character metrics across unsettled, bold, and italic variants allowing you to use CSS to animate font weight without it disrupting any line breaks.
16:44:32 From Peter Wasilko : https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Recursive?query=recursive
16:44:49 From Peter Wasilko : https://www.recursive.design
16:45:11 From Peter Wasilko : I am using it for all my menus and button labels in my web projects.
16:45:38 From Frode Hegland : I’m not really ready to look at fonts and design yet but we will 🙂
16:46:37 From Adam Wern : Re: Journal. Will there be any off-the-record/journal discussions? Will email replies go in there unless you say no?
16:47:03 From Alan Laidlaw : Yes 100%
16:47:04 From Frode Hegland : We’ll have to decide Adam.
16:47:24 From Frode Hegland : Might be posts on WordPress and comments and if you comment on WordPress rather than email then it goes in
16:47:24 From Peter Wasilko : https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Alegreya+Sans?query=alegreya https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Alegreya?query=alegreya https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Alegreya+Sans+SC?query=alegreya https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Alegreya+SC?query=alegreya
16:47:24 From Alan Laidlaw : Person opinion. Much of it should be off-record.
16:47:27 From Frode Hegland : What do you think?
16:47:46 From Rafael Nepô : @Alan Let’s have a quick 1 on 1 to talk about the Newsletter?
16:47:59 From Alan Laidlaw : Yes, great
16:48:00 From Peter Wasilko : The Alegreya fonts are my go to for Print projects because they integrate very tightly with LaTeX.
16:48:15 From Frode Hegland : Peter. From Hamilton: “Not. Yet”. 😉
16:49:57 From Frode Hegland : What projects should we list on the site people?
16:53:08 From Peter Wasilko : Ah whither CyberDog
16:53:54 From Mark Anderson : “That’s just a [ ….] issue”, said all too often.
16:53:55 From Peter Wasilko : My Principle of Severability!
16:54:27 From Alan Laidlaw : I love VR/XR/etc but I’m wary of, say, porting the journal to Vr. There’s a ton of interesting doc experiments on the way to an (abstract, ideal) VR experience without limiting ourselves to a very early industrialized version of VR space
16:54:57 From Alan Laidlaw : 100% mark. What are we trying to solve?
16:55:12 From Peter Wasilko : Here is a relevant blast from the past: http://www.moo-cows.com/docs/
16:55:39 From Alan Laidlaw : This also speaks to the $$ friction. money spent should lead to a problem we’re trying to solve
16:58:09 From Rafael Nepô : Bug Keynote people about SVG support! XD
16:59:23 From Frode Hegland : Seen the Knowledge Navigator video from Apple way back?
16:59:34 From Rafael Nepô : Yup
16:59:40 From Peter Wasilko : https://www.researchgate.net/publication/226766649_On_the_linguistic_nature_of_cyberspace_and_virtual_communities
16:59:50 From Rafael Nepô : Siri
17:00:55 From Peter Wasilko : Each selection in the document should be an entry point into a shared collaboration space.
17:01:40 From Peter Wasilko : I feel rather substantial.
17:01:50 From Rafael Nepô : https://www.amazon.com/Super-Normal-Sensations-Naoto-Fukasawa/dp/3037781068/ref=sr_1_1?crid=6NNLN038TA4M&keywords=Super+Normal&qid=1642179679&sprefix=super+norma%2Caps%2C198&sr=8-1
17:02:07 From Rafael Nepô : Super Normal: Sensations of the Ordinary by Naoto Fukasawa and Jasper Morrison
17:02:23 From Rafael Nepô : https://www.amazon.com/Design-Everyday-Things-Revised-Expanded/dp/0465050654/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2BY89YZTLU5ER&keywords=Design+of+everyday+objects&qid=1642179737&sprefix=design+of+everyday+object%2Caps%2C172&sr=8-1
17:02:32 From Rafael Nepô : The Design of Everyday Things by Dan Norman
17:02:36 From Frode Hegland : Think I bought that one Rafael, at least like it
17:02:41 From Frode Hegland : Super normal
17:02:46 From Peter Wasilko : It would be interesting to think about what would could do with a forearm Gauntlet form factor.
17:02:52 From Peter Wasilko : *what we could do
17:03:40 From Alan Laidlaw : Point about Vint and larger network. That’s another invisible attribute we have and why I’m on the side (just barely) of doing a newsletter. Its a way to convert some prestige into leveling up social credential which can be converted into demo audience, passive income (to cover costs, etc)
17:03:50 From Peter Wasilko : https://3dmixers.com/m/170016-predator-gauntlet-right-arm
17:06:30 From Mark Anderson : RE Rafael’s point, we now read far more than writing. That inevitably affects how our (collective) facility with writing evolves. It’s something i’m reflecting on having just finished Fischer’s ‘The Future of Writing’.
17:10:41 From Frode Hegland : I find this very difficult. Waiting for Alan then I’ll comment, not sure about all of this… Gamers?… Yes, but also people who don’t know they have a problem, in terms of fake news etc.
17:10:42 From Peter Wasilko : https://softhruf.love
17:11:05 From Rafael Nepô : Mark, It’s a trio! History of Reading / Writing / Language!
17:11:55 From Mark Anderson : Rafael, yes!
17:12:39 From Frode Hegland : Arabs tried to sell paper to the west for a long time, they didn’t take until they re-discovered ‘science’
17:12:43 From Frode Hegland : It’s a big issue now
17:13:30 From Rafael Nepô : I have to send you a photo of my brother climbing a mountain and cooking salmon. XD
17:13:37 From Frode Hegland : I would LIKE to augment the ‘caring knowledge worker’. But I think it’s more important to augment the average person by being their for their curiosity sparks
17:13:42 From Brandel Zachernuk : Bill Buxton says “Every interface is best for something and worst for something else”
17:13:50 From Frode Hegland : indeed
17:14:21 From Mark Anderson : @Frode – yes.
17:16:51 From Alan Laidlaw : Ah yes, that was the other point. About product, solving big pain problems and granular specificity. I loved the story of the demo at the opening of Creative Selection.
17:17:01 From Alan Laidlaw : Such a tiny tiny affordance
17:19:20 From Alan Laidlaw : To Brandel’s point – agreed. its also fair to say that ML is a totally different (non-pixel) kind of computing. That is to say were on the cusp of several radically different kinds of computing – in many ways taking us back to conversations from 20s-70s
17:19:30 From Mark Anderson : I also like the aspect of an N-dimensional view of data, which VR offers access towards.
17:20:07 From Rafael Nepô : https://miro.medium.com/max/700/1*3PPfr1EWNUit6BTg4XOFRQ.jpeg
17:20:15 From Alan Laidlaw : (B Russell > Shannon & Turing > Norbert W > V Bush > D Engelbert > R Stallman)
17:20:16 From Rafael Nepô : Reminds me of this photo 🙂
17:20:26 From Adam Wern : Using virtual hands has made me much more positive towards AR/VR
17:20:38 From Frode Hegland : GAMERS!
17:20:49 From Rafael Nepô : https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Katina-Michael/publication/260582329/figure/fig12/AS:296698678136838@1447749885849/Self-portraits-of-Mann-with-wearable-computing-kit-from-the-1980s-to-the-1990s-Prof.png
17:21:15 From Mark Anderson : ML scary now as it is way outstripping our ability to mechanically understand the semantics of the (text) data from which we are ‘learning’.
17:22:24 From Alan Laidlaw : I want to BUILD THAT
17:22:29 From Rafael Nepô : Totally want to talk about games, but I’m going to have to leave. 🙁
17:22:31 From Peter Wasilko : We might need to co-design a game with that!
17:22:35 From Rafael Nepô : See you all on Monday. 😄
17:22:42 From Alan Laidlaw : Re ML: https://twitter.com/ZachWeiner/status/1481375696349970435
17:22:46 From Mark Anderson : Bye!
17:22:55 From Alan Laidlaw : Rafael, I’ll email you
17:23:26 From Mark Anderson : @Alan, just clipped that to my drive earlier today.
17:24:03 From Alan Laidlaw : I’d love to reimagine lists in VR. phones have collapses all interfaces to lists and it kills me
17:25:23 From Peter Wasilko : Have a look at this: https://infovis-wiki.net/wiki/Perspective_Wall
17:26:11 From Brandel Zachernuk : Oh I haven’t shared this here – too long to go through now but check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXGmoH5vIwg
17:26:16 From Peter Wasilko : http://delivery.acm.org/10.1145/110000/108870/p173-mackinlay.pdf
17:26:40 From Brandel Zachernuk : Frode has seen it I think – hand poses for different modes of interaction
17:31:11 From Peter Wasilko : We had that sort of collaboration in MediaMOO back in the day.
17:31:41 From Peter Wasilko : There were Gopher pads and shared editor slates.
17:32:40 From Peter Wasilko : Of course it was just pure text, but the sense of shared immersion was quite compelling.
17:32:46 From Frode Hegland : Brandel, is it ‘easy’ to share a VR space ‘object’ at the same time, while we talk on 2D screen zoom?
17:35:16 From Alan Laidlaw : I must be off
17:35:20 From Alan Laidlaw : Cheers all!
17:35:24 From Frode Hegland : Bye for now!
17:35:30 From Peter Wasilko : There are so many dead research links on the web. 🙁
17:35:56 From Peter Wasilko : I wish we could track where things go when they move.
17:35:59 From Brandel Zachernuk : https://zachernuk.neocities.org/2022/slow-mirror/
17:36:55 From Brandel Zachernuk : https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/performance-from-oculus-quest-webxr-cf6dd1a24955474fbebc9f034cd43271
17:38:20 From Frode Hegland : We are not talking about inventing or creating a metaverse but we are actually trying to make an Internet for VR/AR rich worlds. Should we get Vint and more on board? Meet with him here for this?
17:38:21 From Frode Hegland : https://futuretextlab.info/2022/01/14/slow-mirror/
17:39:13 From Adam Wern : No, but we may be about creative a Docuverse, and perhaps in 3d
17:39:22 From Adam Wern : create
17:39:43 From Peter Wasilko : @Adam, exactly!
17:41:03 From Mark Anderson : or a new viewspec for the internet?
17:42:19 From Peter Wasilko : I have a funky astigmatism layered on top of my nearsightedness.
17:46:50 From Peter Wasilko : What about external volumetric displays?
17:47:21 From Brandel Zachernuk : Peter: Yes exactly – once the need is proven there are a stable of speculative technologies waiting in the wings
17:47:29 From Mark Anderson : I normally stand and walk when on non-video calls. Oddly it helps concentration
17:47:50 From Brandel Zachernuk : https://zachernuk.neocities.org/2021/deep-reader/ has the least worst implementation of my text-to-VR library in it too
17:48:08 From Peter Wasilko : https://www.opli.net/opli_magazine/eo/2017/the-voxon-vx1-3d-volumetric-display-now-commercially-available-july-news/
17:50:32 From Brandel Zachernuk : wordpress@futuretextlab.info
17:54:30 From Frode Hegland : So we have agreed to work on a ‘manifesto of access’ for how VR environments and objects should be transportable and shareable via the Internet
17:54:45 From Frode Hegland : So we have agreed to work on a ‘manifesto of access’ for how VR/AR environments and objects should be transportable and shareable via the Internet
17:54:56 From Frode Hegland : So we have agreed to work on a ‘manifesto of access’ for how VR/AR/Spatial environments and objects should be transportable and shareable via the Internet
17:56:32 From Peter Wasilko : I am into the WordPress system!
17:56:42 From Frode Hegland : 🙂

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