Chat : 24 Jan 2022

Video and transcript: https://futuretextlab.info/2022/01/25/tr-24-jan-2022/

16:05:33 From Peter Wasilko : Mourns for the Canon Cat!
16:05:35 From Mark Anderson : Happy to do routine stuff later so as to make best us of Dave’s limited time window.
16:11:42 From Peter Wasilko : We should be able to let people in 2-D have affordances for seamlessly interacting with the VR world. So give me a top down, frontal, and side view of the “Room” and provide high level commands like grab ‘object’, point it at person or named 3-d location in the world
16:12:01 From Mark Anderson : Occulus en route here. Frode has convinced me!
16:13:36 From Peter Wasilko : Or have a virtual screen pallet I can drag and drop to that will place the drag data onto that virtual screen in 3-space
16:15:19 From Peter Wasilko : Another pallet would let me position and gesture with a 3-d avatar in the room.
16:15:52 From Mark Anderson : ^^ interesting!
16:20:58 From Mark Anderson : My summary of Halasz’s “7 issues” (he covered it several times:
16:21:18 From Frode Hegland : Thanks Mark
16:25:50 From Frode Hegland : Oculus is now 120 frames a second Peter BTW
16:26:28 From Peter Wasilko : Hand tracking sounds very intriguing.
16:27:39 From Brandel Zachernuk : This is “word reality – the ‘word processor’ ” – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxviGskApcw
16:27:47 From Brandel Zachernuk : The timeline viewer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeKdDatIItU
16:28:13 From Brandel Zachernuk : The leap input-powered text manipulation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXGmoH5vIwg
16:28:46 From Brendan Langen : 🙌
16:29:24 From Mark Anderson : Halasz ACM HT 1991 keynote talk (not in DL.ACM):
16:30:00 From Mark Anderson : Original 7 issues talk: https://doi.org/10.1145/317426.317451
16:30:37 From Mark Anderson : Oops, sorry last was Reflections on Notecards.
16:30:40 From Brandel Zachernuk : Smaller stuff – this is a demo of a really quick-and-dirty analytics view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuzXwZD0EHc and the ‘slow mirror’ demo of seeing oneself in VR and understanding how we are represented to one another: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AodOTyXRyEc
16:31:02 From Mark Anderson : “Seven Issues”: Revisited https://dl.acm.org/doi/proceedings/10.1145/122974
16:31:25 From Mark Anderson : Reflections on “Seven Issues”: Hypertext in the Era of the Web. http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=507328
16:31:40 From Peter Wasilko : And a reminder on the centrality of “Cyberspace: First Steps” which I’ve mentioned a few times.
16:32:45 From Peter Wasilko : eDiscovery has been the death of innovation in all other facets of Legal Tech
16:33:10 From Peter Wasilko : It just sucked up all the funding and mind-share
16:33:53 From Adam W : Personally, I’m most interested in the Embodiment aspect (input/sensing, …) and “native” 3D text/docs – exploring that
16:34:33 From Adam W : So perhaps what a the word processor of XR is
16:35:54 From Frode Hegland : Researcher at desk. Corpus is documents since then all current knowledge is the work stuff, not asking for VR-Native only.
16:36:31 From Adam W : Thinker over Researcher for me
16:36:44 From Peter Wasilko : https://hci.stanford.edu/~winograd/shrdlu/
16:44:21 From David Millard : I have to duck out, but great to meet everyone, and ill try and join again on Friday
16:44:38 From Brandel Zachernuk : Thank you Dave, it was great to have you on board!
16:44:49 From Mark Anderson : Ah, so we need to elucidate where the ‘new’ environment gives an improvement on the non-VR status quo.
16:46:48 From Mark Anderson : Listening to Dave, another aspect is the form (format) of the data needed for rich interaction. I feel it can’t just be dismissed as an ‘implementation issue’.
16:46:59 From Frode Hegland : Absolutely
16:51:58 From Peter Wasilko : http://inform7.com/talks/2020/06/07/narrascope-ii.html
16:58:59 From Peter Wasilko : I wonder if Cathy Marshal has given any thought to VR.
16:59:36 From Frode Hegland : We should ask her
17:00:04 From Brendan Langen : agreed! would love to hear her thoughts on implied structure.
17:01:39 From Frode Hegland : VR to to list is VERY interesting actually
17:01:47 From Frode Hegland : VR Notes of course as well
17:04:43 From Peter Wasilko : BTW. I won’t be available Friday.
17:05:38 From Mark Anderson : @Brendan and richness even lost of there in the (physical) present too.
17:08:16 From Frode Hegland : I think at core we are building a ‘knowledge space’
17:10:38 From Mark Anderson : “Do whatever I want” can also be a trap. Do I actually know what I want, or more relevantly in this space, how to communicate—to human or computer—our desire/intent.
17:12:16 From Brendan Langen : fyi – hard stop for me at :30 today.
17:12:26 From Frode Hegland : k
17:12:59 From Brandel Zachernuk : I highly recommend watching all of Bret Victor’s videos about this – https://vimeo.com/worrydream – as time goes on I disagree with him more and more, but his provocations are still brilliant. I started chronologically but there’s enough overlap you could probably go through them however you want
17:14:20 From Mark Anderson : Peter’s point about decomposing to greater detail, reminds me about Chris Gutteridge’s ideas about discoverability via glossaries (nested layers of re-direction to wider/deeper info).
17:17:59 From Mark Anderson : Reflecting on the fact we’re much better at collectinf (Evernote, DEVONthink, Roam, Flickr tags, etc.) than making sense of what we’ve collected.
17:20:47 From Mark Anderson : More parallel data streams/trails.
17:27:39 From Brandel Zachernuk : I’m a big fan of David Kirsh’s thoughts on this stuff – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnipRmR9RJY – his distinction between ‘epistemic’ and ‘pragmatic’ actions. VR lets all our epistemic actions have pragmatic implications
17:28:01 From Peter Wasilko : There is no candle stick, it is your mind that bends!
17:28:32 From Brendan Langen : btw @peter – really like the layered arsenal of options you mentioned with the wand a few minutes ago. i’m visualizing playing an RPG with the wealth of moves, armor, tools, etc. someone can call upon.

didn’t want to lose that trail!
17:34:12 From Peter Wasilko : Thousands a day for me.
17:35:40 From Mark Anderson : As Peter talks I’m imaging my email stranded like the raw Matrix (partly as I was rewatching the original movieyesterday)
17:36:43 From Mark Anderson : “… I don’t see the email anymore, I just see Winterfest’s closing, or this forum’s blowing up of [something]…”
17:37:53 From Adam W : Or ebooks
17:38:37 From Mark Anderson : ^^^ oops “imaging” → “imagining”. Otherwise slightly changes the sense.
17:41:17 From Peter Wasilko : The should have used Plan 9 !
17:41:55 From Peter Wasilko : https://9p.io/plan9/
17:42:30 From Peter Wasilko : *They should
17:56:52 From Mark Anderson : Noda: https://www.oculus.com/experiences/quest/3916601848368970/?locale=en_GB
17:57:09 From Frode Hegland : Yes, thanks Mark
17:58:12 From Mark Anderson : Sense-making and situational awareness ire key in (text) military/intel activities.
17:59:17 From Frode Hegland : Weapon systems and force multipliers Afghanistan, table diorama
17:59:46 From Alan Laidlaw : I must be off!
18:01:45 From Frode Hegland : Carl Vinson wooden aircraft and hypertext
18:02:13 From Peter Wasilko : Roger Schank commenting on twitter on AI hype: “Winter is Coming”
18:03:07 From Frode Hegland : Cybercafe meeting
18:05:01 From Mark Anderson : ZOG was in USS Carl Vinson c.’82-‘84.
18:05:09 From Brandel Zachernuk : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZOG_(hypertext)
18:05:13 From Peter Wasilko : I think there may have been some work on that back in Negroponte’s Architecture Machine period.
18:05:33 From Brandel Zachernuk : Looks very PLATO
18:06:16 From Mark Anderson : ZOG and the USS Carl Vinson. Computer Science Research Review, 901–906. https://www.interaction-design.org/literature/conference/interact-84-1st-ifip-international-conference-on-human-computer-interaction
18:06:47 From Peter Wasilko : https://www.theverge.com/2012/5/24/3040959/dataland-mits-70s-media-room-concept-that-influenced-the-mac
18:07:12 From Adam W : Sense and Senses making —embodiment
18:08:08 From Mark Anderson : ZOG was akin to GUIDE in terms of node replacing node, rather than a sense of following a link (i.e. a sense of traversal) but that partly reflects the tech abilities of the day.
18:10:57 From Adam W : I want to experiment much more in XR to “understand” more of the medium first – like half a year
18:11:43 From Adam W : Like virtual “hands” alone is new to me
18:11:44 From Brandel Zachernuk : On hypertext: Charles Simonyi was both PARC and veery early MS, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Simonyi
18:13:41 From Brandel Zachernuk : I’ve got a meeting in 2 mins so I’ll have to drop for that – this was very exciting, thank you!

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