14 Feb 2022

Video and transcript: https://futuretextlab.info/2022/02/15/tr-15-feb-2022/

17:11:04 From Peter Wasilko : Any idea why zoom isn’t showing my profile photo today?
17:11:19 From Frode Hegland : Nope, sorry
17:11:35 From Brandel Zachernuk : It’s not showing mine either
17:12:51 From Mark Anderson : Valentine’s Day stealth mode?
17:14:50 From Peter Wasilko : Ah, the Zoom app had auto-logged me out.
17:14:59 From Mark Anderson : AS a VR refusenik, I will freely admit that a number of my (negative) preconceptions have been undermined!
17:15:24 From Fabien Benetou : honezstly it’s fine hating VR, but not without trying it during the last couple of years
17:15:58 From Adam Wern : Same here, first time I started liking VR
17:29:56 From Frode Hegland : Edge 368
17:30:15 From Brandel Zachernuk : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcmAlpIp3oM
17:33:50 From Peter Wasilko : It makes me miss my local Drive In Movie Theater.
17:35:46 From Mark Anderson : Nice description by Brandel on viz limits & current tech. That’s why I’m happy to keep my initial confusions re focus in a separate brain space from considering what we can try. IOW, I don’t want to merely explore things I don’t like as at reaction may reflect a lack of underastnding rather than something needing addressing.
17:36:51 From Peter Wasilko : For serious nostalgia have a look at this project: https://www.futureport82.com
17:37:50 From Peter Wasilko : The full experience should theoretically support a headset.
17:39:04 From Peter Wasilko : I think it was done with Unreal Engine.
17:39:31 From Peter Wasilko : Here is a QuickTime version for your browser.
17:39:34 From Peter Wasilko : https://kuula.co/post/n1/collection/7YF5Q
17:39:35 From Brandel Zachernuk : It’s worth enumerating the things that are unsatisfactory, though, in order to consider what the constructive solutions are – the implementation details for seemingly disparate concepts may need to change in order to accommodate it, or to help clarify what new work needs to happen
17:45:28 From Peter Wasilko : What is A-Frame?
17:47:57 From Fabien Benetou : https://gist.github.com/Utopiah/f0f1f3e8cf781a7f71e2af8d6f6b12f6#file-visual-meta-parse-js
17:48:05 From Fabien Benetou : AFrame is a HTML-like language for 3D and VR
17:48:06 From Brandel Zachernuk : A-Frame is a declarative library/framework for generating 3D / VR scenes
17:48:10 From Brandel Zachernuk : Ah better
17:49:48 From Fabien Benetou : @Brandel @Adam the gist has the PDF/BibTex to image. The image is used also because they are networked and can be moved around in Hubs.
17:52:46 From Brandel Zachernuk : It does look like Troika-text is available as an a-frame component: https://github.com/lojjic/aframe-troika-text
17:54:18 From alanlaidlaw : Sounds amazing how far you’ve all come, from what it sounds like.
17:54:59 From Fabien Benetou : bringing aframe-troila-text to Hubs is trivial but not networked
17:55:55 From Fabien Benetou : it might be though, as schemas can be extended, but I havent done that.
17:56:17 From Brandel Zachernuk : Okay, I’ll have to take a look at whether there’s a peer-transfer protocol to use to send instructions to render troika stuff
17:56:28 From Frode Hegland : “But where does it live when more than one thing?!!!” 🙂
17:57:43 From Mark Anderson : Not what we want of plan but visual meta still has value if disconnected from it’s ‘parent’ doc (assuming the VM has enough to re-link to source)
17:57:43 From alanlaidlaw : If we’re going to have rooms, it seems like we also need “backpacks” – things that are carried w you from room to room.
17:57:48 From Fabien Benetou : Hubs relies on https://github.com/networked-aframe/networked-aframe for networking
17:57:50 From Peter Wasilko : https://sine.space/vr
17:59:03 From Fabien Benetou : Alan : did https://twitter.com/utopiah/status/1490090029246468097 few years ago , fanny pack to be more visible 😛
17:59:49 From alanlaidlaw : fascinating!
18:00:44 From alanlaidlaw : Its like you read my mind
18:00:45 From Frode Hegland : Maybe have a QR code for visual-meta after all, so that a shared screen into VR can have an OCR reader for it? Exactly Peter!
18:01:34 From Fabien Benetou : I wish we could capture QR codes from the headset camera directly… the Quest at least doesnt allow that for now AFAIK, now from the browser last time I tried.
18:02:28 From Frode Hegland : ‘Thumbs up’ from many on Brandel web comment
18:05:18 From Mark Anderson : @ Frode Wasn’t someone at pre-Covid FoT doing discourse mapping?
18:05:26 From Fabien Benetou : I agree btw about the risk of destrictuvely appending to a document, e.g PDF. There might be safe ways but I don’t know much about. If it “just” appends, should be fine but if it has recalculate ToCs, shortcuts, etc I’d worry.
18:05:42 From Frode Hegland : No recalculation !!!
18:05:44 From Frode Hegland : 🙂
18:08:38 From Peter Wasilko : We should really bite the bullet and advance our own file format — ADF : Augmented Document Format
18:08:53 From Frode Hegland : I do call these augmented documents Peter! 🙂
18:11:59 From Frode Hegland : 1) So, the, Visual-Meta in HTML? How would you like to try to implement it? Only write so only on publish, can’t have VR records back in. 2)And can we have a further look at how to have two different source objects (or more) in a space? 3) Maybe browser plugin (and PDF reader) to open into VR?
18:13:38 From Mark Anderson : @Alan you may have missed it but this https://scobleizer.blog/2022/01/11/the-augmented-home/ chimes with your described AR or imagined working.
18:14:09 From Peter Wasilko : Like the one page persistent wiki’s
18:15:30 From Mark Anderson : A challenge is finding ways to bridge content structure from PDF to VR as PDF itself likely can’t … and won’t.
18:21:25 From Peter Wasilko : I want Purple Numbers!
18:21:42 From Frode Hegland : Peter, you know I invented making them live right? 🙂
18:22:10 From Peter Wasilko : Oh wow, I missed that bit of history.
18:22:12 From alanlaidlaw : Very impressive. I like this angle bc we have all these devices now and I don’t see them being replaced by VR. Instead, they’ll be glued together.
18:23:06 From Fabien Benetou : Definitely, VR won’t replace other media so better make it play nicely with the rest
18:24:58 From Frode Hegland : HTML and then: So then, how do we get something from the laptop into VR? Exactly what steps?
18:27:21 From Fabien Benetou : depends what you want to preserve
18:27:31 From Frode Hegland : Visual-meta at least
18:28:53 From Fabien Benetou : the URL is what I use to preserve a link with “all” data from the source but then what you actually bringi in… depends on the goal and format IMHO
18:29:56 From Peter Wasilko : I think we want identifiers in their own namespace orthogonal to the DNS system.
18:30:18 From Fabien Benetou : I could imagine streaming desktop and locate the URL from the browser at least
18:30:19 From Peter Wasilko : Maybe Ted’s tumblers.
18:31:20 From Peter Wasilko : Yes, an Electron App making input device API calls.
18:31:35 From Peter Wasilko : We can write our own reader!
18:31:53 From Frode Hegland : We have one Peter. It’a called Reader
18:31:58 From Peter Wasilko : 🙂
18:32:25 From Peter Wasilko : We just need to make it cross platform eventually.
18:34:00 From alanlaidlaw : I must be off. good to hear where everyone’s at!
18:34:14 From Frode Hegland : I think that moving documents from flat screen to VR easily will be crucial and fundamental
18:34:18 From Frode Hegland : Later Alan
18:35:46 From Brandel Zachernuk : Steve Mann?
18:36:30 From Brandel Zachernuk : Oh maybe Pranav Mistry’s Sixense? Supervised by Patti Maes and presented at TED ~10 years ago
18:37:33 From Peter Wasilko : Imagine a custom protocol with easily memorizable addresses like: adf://giggly-purple-grouse
18:39:18 From Mark Anderson : If heading to T B-L don’t think only of HTML, but the Semantic Web. SemWeb never really took off, but I think Solid (https://solid.mit.edu) is another crack at the same thing. So be ready to situate our work not just against HTML but also SemWeb/Solid and also wider W3C standards. My observation of TBL is fairly careful about embracing things that don’t fit well with W3C.
18:40:14 From Fabien Benetou : https://www.media.mit.edu/publications/note-taking-in-virtual-reality-using-visual-hyperlinks-and-annotations/
18:40:33 From Frode Hegland : Nice, thanks Fabien
18:40:35 From Fabien Benetou : Scott W. Greenwald “Note-Taking in Virtual Reality Using Visual Hyperlinks and Annotations” on taking photos in VR
18:40:52 From Brandel Zachernuk : Ooh thank you
18:41:34 From Fabien Benetou : also https://www.media.mit.edu/publications/the-equipped-explorer/
18:42:23 From Fabien Benetou : (such a long way from the SuperBowl ad I’d shed a tear…)
18:42:58 From Mark Anderson : What 3 Words for file addressing?
18:43:37 From Mark Anderson : https://what3words.com/
18:43:50 From Fabien Benetou : yes
18:45:41 From Adam Wern : That format could also be a subset of HTML. It would be a very safe bet for the future.
18:45:45 From Mark Anderson : I like the idea but I’m conscious f issues of linguistic inclusion. Many english words aren’t easily pronounced easily by other language natives.
18:48:23 From Peter Wasilko : Oh I like that formulation Brandel!
18:48:28 From Peter Wasilko : Conceptual Designer
18:49:55 From Peter Wasilko : Reminds me of ColorForth
18:50:45 From Peter Wasilko : HTML with embedded Javascript
18:52:41 From Peter Wasilko : To get the data take an IPFS hash of Giggly Purple Grouse
18:53:03 From Peter Wasilko : Watch, next week you will still remember Giggly Purple Grouse!
18:53:10 From Fabien Benetou : in 2D accross screens Oblong (with Cisco) explores a bit, without VR
18:53:27 From Frode Hegland : How can I sent to VR from desktop?
18:53:32 From Fabien Benetou : https://www.oblong.com/
18:54:33 From Peter Wasilko : YES, totally agree with Adam
18:55:03 From Peter Wasilko : Sidecar is good idea too!
18:57:16 From Peter Wasilko : I wonder if the javascript in an html file can mutate the file on disk that it was loaded from.
18:58:11 From Fabien Benetou : https://hubs-experiment.com/JGPebGu/precious-reasonable-gala
19:00:41 From Peter Wasilko : Giggly Purple Grouse in a tweet!
19:01:10 From Peter Wasilko : See Jef Raskin’s Humane Interface
19:02:39 From Peter Wasilko : I can run server code from my domain too.
19:03:19 From Peter Wasilko : Even run binaries?
19:03:24 From Frode Hegland : Think so
19:03:32 From Peter Wasilko : Excellent!
19:05:50 From Fabien Benetou : Honestly this is my daily struggle https://fabien.benetou.fr/Fabien/Principle so if you have suggestions I’m all ears
19:06:11 From Fabien Benetou : I did put quite a bit of thoughts into this but I don’t have an answer, proper, if it exists.
19:06:24 From Mark Anderson : Amen, writing clear instructions take disproportionately long time.
19:09:30 From Peter Wasilko : If we do any protocol work we can model it with a state machine. There is a cool state machine editor being tested in VSCode.
19:10:10 From Bob Horn : Ihave sent the pics of the U of ILL to all

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