Video: https://youtu.be/LNE_1tMQ7tg
16:08:09 From Fabien : Added graph display, and some interaction, just this morning.
16:08:27 From Fabien : related code https://git.benetou.fr/utopiah/text-code-xr-engine/src/branch/graph
16:10:43 From Fabien : Could have nearly done a Belgian presentation this time
16:11:20 From Fabien : (I mean in Belgium physical meeting)
16:11:29 From Frode Hegland : Ha ha…
16:11:32 From Frode Hegland : 🙂
16:12:30 From Peter Wasilko : Do feel free to share your project / corporate homepages guys!
16:13:48 From Peter Wasilko : And I’m happy to connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterwasilko/
16:15:00 From Fabien : https://pandoc.org
16:16:33 From Simon Grant : I would be up for a physical meeting in Belgium!
16:16:54 From Frode Hegland : Yea, me too. Maybe for demo day in a few months eh Fabien?…
16:17:32 From Gyuri : Or as Engelbart put it Thought Vectors in Concept Space
16:18:22 From Fabien : Belgian meet at http://www.mundaneum.org/en then with Arthur support, and if not, Brussels?
16:18:40 From Frode Hegland : Why not?!
16:24:01 From Alan Laidlaw : interesting, predates Stuart Brand’s Pace Layers.
16:24:42 From Gyuri : wrote it in 19389!
16:24:47 From Gyuri : 1939
16:26:10 From Peter Wasilko : The Joy of Analog!
16:27:44 From Peter Wasilko : And constant time search when you lift the spindle.
16:28:09 From Fabien : physically built MEMEX https://web.archive.org/web/20210411145332/https://trevor.smith.name/project/memex and he sold mini ones too https://twitter.com/codefrau/status/1506869630727442434
16:29:54 From Fabien : Ah didn’t see the link with Bachimont until now, interesting.
16:30:07 From Fabien : https://hyperotlet.huma-num.fr/otletosphere/
16:30:39 From Fabien : https://cosma.graphlab.fr/en/
16:35:19 From Gyuri : deep rearranging as Ted calls it
16:35:49 From Fabien : https://andymatuschak.org
16:38:45 From Alan Laidlaw : funny, in the graph context, one is more likely to find the stragglers (orphaned content) because they have more contrast than the deeply referenced content.
16:39:00 From Frode Hegland : Good point
16:39:29 From Peter Wasilko : @Alan, great insight!
16:39:56 From Alan Laidlaw : A different graph representation could have the more central content reflect the greatest space around it. Sort of like gravitation pull vs lines.
16:40:19 From Fabien : What a tease.
16:40:22 From Fabien : 😀
16:40:29 From Gyuri : https://twitter.com/TrailMarks/status/1392957700028440576
16:40:36 From Peter Wasilko : A Steve moment!
16:41:49 From Peter Wasilko : Have you tried Hookmark?
16:42:31 From Fabien : https://www.arthurperret.fr
16:44:35 From Fabien : Live test on FoT 3 https://via.hypothes.is/https://futuretextpublishing.com/download/Future of Text |||.pdf
16:45:03 From Fabien : (which Zoom Web seems to break but does work)
16:45:28 From Fabien : easier link https://hyp.is/go?url=https%3A%2F%2Ffuturetextpublishing.com%2Fdownload%2FFuture%2520of%2520Text%2520%257C%257C%257C.pdf&group=world hopefully
16:45:44 From Frode Hegland : Yes, second link is better Fabien
16:46:09 From Peter Wasilko : Taking a little time to pre-process the pdf
16:46:27 From Peter Wasilko : Ah, there we go.
16:46:42 From Fabien : 800+ pages would do that 😀
16:48:15 From Daveed : Joel Chan?
16:48:19 From Gyuri : yes
16:49:30 From Gyuri : https://indyhub.files.fission.name/p/viewer/web/viewer.html?file=https://ipfs.io/ipfs/bafybeid6doxhzck3me366265u3ony6rbuzv7dze7pjuptxeln24b2qvur4?filename=trautwein2022a.pdf
16:49:34 From Gyuri : https://indylab-2022.fission.app/hyp?*#scaling%20synthesis&user=indyweb
16:49:40 From Daveed : Thanks
16:50:40 From Mark Bernstein : Randall Trigg’s dissertation on link types remains a good cautionary note.
16:50:41 From Arthur Perret : contact@arthurperret.fr
16:52:53 From Gyuri : https://twitter.com/search?q=linked%20up(from%3ATrailMarks%20OR%20from%3ATrailHub1)&src=typed_query&f=top
16:53:55 From Simon Grant : and references typically don’t have semantics
16:54:01 From Peter Wasilko : http://papermachines.org
16:54:35 From Simon Grant : drowning out is a real issue
16:55:52 From Fabien : no answer to this IMHO since the more we organize, the more idea we get, the more it challenges the organization… and we are back just with another scale. Still impossible not to do it.
16:56:22 From Gyuri : turn off the presentation please
16:58:21 From Fabien : indeed, no sources
16:58:34 From Fabien : …and also wrong, kind of a big deal.
16:58:45 From Fabien : Probability, not veracity.
17:00:54 From Peter Wasilko : Could you have your dissertation machine translated to English?
17:01:05 From Simon Grant : 🙂
17:02:03 From Fabien : This Gordon? https://subconscious.substack.com
17:02:35 From Fabien : indeed, can also recommend
17:03:31 From David Lebow : Got to go. Hope to see you next Monday.
17:03:37 From Peter Wasilko : Command Lines are shiny!
17:04:14 From Fabien : Also https://subconscious.network but AFAIR since with his collaborator no import from other sources https://twitter.com/utopiah/status/1579403788930420737
17:04:38 From Fabien : (his answer deleted sadly as Twitter… well is all broken)
17:08:22 From Gyuri : Nexus indeed Nexialist We colit PLEXus
17:10:39 From Simon Grant : (more on my question https://wiki.simongrant.org/doku.php/d:2022-04-16 )
17:11:13 From Simon Grant : that was on the first question
17:11:44 From Simon Grant : on my second question: how about using the capabilities of HTML to load the graph separately?
17:11:55 From Chris Gebhardt : Exclusive use of cryptographic hash references facilitates networkable discovery and propagation of inbound references (ie. backlinks) Otherwise, link-rot makes this intractible. (hence why we have modern search engines that continually and crudely trawl and reindex the web)
17:11:59 From Simon Grant : (i.e. not just having it all on one HTML file)
17:12:22 From Chris Gebhardt : Filtering does become a challenge, but at least no context is lost.
17:14:43 From Simon Grant : sure, an alternative tool…
17:15:01 From Simon Grant : I mean an alternative interface
17:16:16 From Gyuri : name please GitHub page?
17:16:34 From Fabien : He could also rely on https://babiaxr.gitlab.io/apis/charts/#babia-city-component
17:16:52 From Fabien : social VR to explore a data repository using the metaphor of a city
17:17:16 From Gyuri : https://babiaxr.gitlab.io/apis/charts/#babia-city-component
17:17:28 From Simon Grant : you could create the link files as separate resources, and any node could link to one or more link collections
17:19:57 From Gyuri : Everything is a remix, but from a hopefully interesting perpective and lens and intent!
17:20:29 From Gyuri : SITUATED! Live perspective!
17:21:44 From Chris Gebhardt : I always promote links as external annotations. The link contains one or more “physical” references to resources, including context-building metadata that situates it. (And if those references are hashes, this context can’t be lost)
17:22:42 From Chris Gebhardt : (err.. two or more refs)
17:23:17 From Simon Grant : @Chris, I’d be interested to hear more — asimong@gmail.com
17:25:21 From Alan Laidlaw : I truly loved the presentation, Arthur. thank you. I would like to spend more time looking at Otlet’s drawings from your presentation. Is it best to get those hi-res images from your presentation or somewhere else?
17:26:45 From Fabien : @Alan I’d imagine http://archives.mundaneum.org/en/collection
17:26:51 From Gyuri : Yes and we can go InterPersonal!
17:27:11 From Karl Hebenstreit, Jr. : Arthur, thank you for the presentation!
17:27:12 From Gyuri : towards augmented intertintellect
17:27:50 From Alan Laidlaw : thank you, Fabien
17:28:24 From Frode Hegland : Can you give me a paragraph or so of your written notes for the book?
17:29:27 From Alan Laidlaw : I must be off. good to see you all
17:30:18 From James Gien Wong : Suggestion: Use docdrop to annotate this video in hypothes.is for Frode
17:32:20 From Frode Hegland : I can answer that!
17:32:28 From Frode Hegland : For posterity and robustness 🙂
17:32:52 From Peter Wasilko : Standoff Markup is your friend.
17:33:11 From Fabien : One can traverse my wiki as a graph https://vatelier.benetou.fr/MyDemo/newtooling/wiki_graph.json
17:39:21 From Simon Grant : context recoverable, yes, but please don’t force it unless wanted!
17:40:01 From Simon Grant : Ah, the document as a work of art 🙂
17:40:28 From Simon Grant : Nice
17:41:36 From Chris Gebhardt : In a decentralized model, creation is robust publishing. Format is largely secondary, especially if the information is self-describing. Context is guaranteed to be historically available by the temporal anchoring that hashes provide. (you can’t reference something that hasn’t been prior created)
17:42:55 From Simon Grant : and a last point: separate the content from the metadata, as far as possible!
17:43:25 From Chris Gebhardt : (I mean data format)
17:43:36 From Simon Grant : and visual layout is culturally dependent
17:43:37 From Gyuri : Add the semantics as in inline mark in notation we call trailm arks
17:44:03 From Simon Grant : which is what css is all about…
17:44:20 From James Gien Wong : Have to go. Thanks for the great session!
17:44:52 From Simon Grant : one thing that tech people overlook is, most people want something much much simpler, to start with, and only want more on demand
17:48:38 From Frode Hegland : Library. Web rots, how can graphs and documents connect to each other?
17:49:08 From Gyuri : Put it on IPFS which is a global giant graph of content addressable
17:49:16 From Fabien : on manipulating my browsing history in VR https://twitter.com/utopiah/status/1531188862415929344 , I do keep my database of browsed URLs … been years and years and from time to time I analyze it.
17:49:41 From Simon Grant : document and graph in the same world…. the graph can be generated on the fly…
17:49:53 From Gyuri : indeed
17:50:04 From Gyuri : and you can generate documents from the graph
17:50:24 From Simon Grant : depends whether you see the graph as content or metadata
17:50:49 From Gyuri : You can always choose which way you look at it
17:50:51 From Simon Grant : I love wikis and have several ideas on how to enhance them
17:50:53 From Chris Gebhardt : Sidenode: A fundamental problem here is that we’re coming to this whole discussion with our own sets of subtly different terminology and much of it is overloaded. (ie. tech vs. aesthetic vs. literary, industry vs academic, etc) We’re all pulling in the same general direction. 🙂
17:51:00 From Gyuri : underneath they are homiconic
17:51:25 From Simon Grant : @Chris — yes, nice!
17:52:28 From Gyuri : https://twitter.com/TrailMarks
17:52:34 From Simon Grant : different perspectives… yes yes yes, so important to represent them both separately and interrelated. And not just one person one perspective
17:56:14 From Simon Grant : and index cards can’t do automatic backlinks!