Chat Log : 12 May 2023


08:15:12 From Frode Hegland : I’m here, listening 🙂 Hi all
08:15:19 From Fabien Benetou : hey there
08:23:32 From Adam Wern : I really like Andy Clarks new book The Experience Machine, regarding how senses influence each other
08:24:15 From Brandel Zachernuk : I still haven’t finished Surfing Uncertainty! I wanted to get through that before jumping into the new one
08:24:44 From Frode Hegland : Interesting, it also takes 30 mins for your eyes to adjust to darkness
08:25:13 From Fabien Benetou : Reacted to “I really like Andy…” with 👀
08:26:23 From Fabien Benetou : Replying to “I really like Andy…” just 10 days old, nice I’ll check I usually like Clark’s work, in fact some of the work on the octopus metaphor is based on his extended mind work
08:27:48 From Frode Hegland : I hope to join better later, but not well at all at the moment, seriously swollen glands and dizzy and all that good stuff. Andreea and Fabien run the day is ok right? We should probably move into an overview of the day.
08:27:53 From Frode Hegland : Who will prototype?
08:28:00 From Frode Hegland : I’ll try some keynote work later
08:29:00 From Fabien Benetou : Reacted to “I hope to join bet…” with 👍
08:29:16 From Fabien Benetou : take care of your health first, we will manage no worries
08:30:46 From Adam Wern : And this very relevant for digital text – to add more senses to it – kinetic, spatial, soundscapes, …
08:32:13 From Frode Hegland : Both!
08:32:21 From Frode Hegland : I’ll be there when the pills take effect
08:32:36 From Frode Hegland : Reacted to “I’ll be there when t…” with 👍
08:33:28 From Frode Hegland : (I hope to do some discussion around a library but only in keynote. I hope others will do something basic like that, around the bigger work by Fabien and Andreea)
08:33:49 From Frode Hegland : What time for us to show what we have started?
08:38:08 From Frode Hegland : Since 10-1 is building, maybe 9-10 to show what we decide what to build?
08:38:12 From Frode Hegland : Or roughly
08:39:38 From Frode Hegland : I plan to look at the difference between search and browse for a bit
08:39:59 From Frode Hegland : Oh yes, European time
08:41:04 From Frode Hegland : Good point, the question, the research question
08:41:19 From Frode Hegland : That should be made clear in the next email invite 🙂
08:43:17 From Frode Hegland : From me: research question : How can we provide access to our large documents in ways which are more useful than linear lists?
08:43:25 From Frode Hegland : Related to Adam’s work I think
08:44:35 From Frode Hegland : So at 1 we should be ready with headsets right? I can out up links here:
08:45:20 From Fabien Benetou : The Diamond Age’s Primer always funny to have in mind while thinking of immersive interactive children book
08:45:22 From Frode Hegland : Simple interface…
08:45:33 From Fabien Benetou : Reacted to “So at 1 we should …” with 👍
08:47:31 From Frode Hegland : 🙂
08:59:45 From Fabien Benetou : Can you please share the paragraph?
09:00:36 From Fabien Benetou : for the exercise to also add content, including large one for Frode here is Clark’s ISBN to ebook 9781524748463
09:01:26 From Frode Hegland : ‘The Experience Machine’
09:03:22 From Fabien Benetou : made the file available online as and can add more, the idea being especially for Adam and Brandel who focus on the Web also, to be queriable
09:03:33 From Fabien Benetou : (and WebDAV)
10:42:18 From Frode Hegland : I’llfully join in about 15
10:42:31 From Fabien Benetou : Reacted to “START RECORDING AG…” with 👍
10:47:39 From Adam Wern : Offloading, but also in a sketch like way to open enough open-mindedness/ambiguity to sense further
11:01:33 From Fabien Benetou : related code
11:05:48 From Fabien Benetou : STT with live editable and processed results could be an interesting way to improve one’s own reading ability, would be demanding at first I imagine then grow easier
11:06:34 From Frode Hegland : Can I go after Brandel? Seems to connect a bit
11:06:42 From Fabien Benetou : Reacted to “Can I go after Bra…” with 👍
11:07:30 From Fabien Benetou : and now we have you talkin about you recording you watchin you
11:11:54 From Mark Anderson : Gesture is often grounded in a culture/nationality. Ability to capture/translate it is an interesting affordance for the wider audience.
11:27:18 From Frode Hegland : It was the core feature though Mark: to be printable in a uniform way
11:31:21 From Brandel Zachernuk : Agh I just realized I have meetings I need to actually be alert for tomorrow – sorry to bail but I look forward to seeing a recording of more later!
11:38:13 From Adam Wern : Yes. And so many verbs are made into nouns
11:49:09 From Mark Anderson : References/citations suffer the same problem which are key to the argument/hypothesis, which are argument/support of the status quo and which are just to show the author knows the domain. It would help if that granularity were captured somehow. The challenge is that classification isn’t in the mind of the writer as they set the citation & who wants the extra work of looping back to do classification.
11:51:12 From Mark Anderson : Better science writing tends to be in books, IME. (sadly!)
11:53:47 From Mark Anderson : Academic publishing has suffered process capture by number of publications → academic standing false premise.
11:54:55 From Adam Wern : The good thing is that we don’t need permission to do text like we want it – academics may follow decades later
11:55:51 From Mark Anderson : Reacted to “The good thing is th…” with 👍🏻
11:57:18 From Mark Anderson : Nice idea for transcript: different colour for admin/general interaction, esp. less saturated. IOW, not key content.
11:57:30 From Frode Hegland : Still a ton of work but I like it
12:00:40 From Mark Anderson : A problem of sharing via social media is that not all Social Networks allow access without being a ‘member’. Plus non members never see content unless pointed to it. So, text aside, the demos/video need freeing from the prison of Social Networks. Initial post to SocNets fine for creator, but to inform others that post is not enough.
12:01:59 From Frode Hegland : But anyone can at least view YouTube though
12:03:10 From Fabien Benetou : would be better indeed but does have a cost too
12:03:17 From Fabien Benetou : anyway really have to be off now, bbl
12:03:49 From Mark Anderson : Yes. But YouTube very different to twitter, FB, etc., etc. BIG difference.
12:06:37 From Frode Hegland : See you all back in an hour
12:07:10 From Frode Hegland : Agreed everyone will say summary at end of sessions and we will try to have more acknowledged lightning talks
12:07:19 From Frode Hegland : Hi Matthias
12:09:49 From Adam Wern : Have to go now, dressing up in frock and all… and will be missing what I looked forward to most, the demo of Andreea!
13:48:10 From Matthias mprove : Just for fun ::,0.71278&z=9.82&m=IFe-manuscripta-91996&d=1&s=1&iiif-content=
13:50:48 From Mark Anderson : 1577!
13:53:07 From Mark Anderson : AMen – it’s much easier to throw away (or archive) a bad/less good idea if we’ve not invested much in making it look nice. This chimes with prototyping, being about the experiment not the visual beauty of the finished form.
13:54:04 From Frode Hegland : What’s the occasion again Adam?
13:54:39 From Adam Wern To Frode Hegland(privately) : Dr Promotion at the city hall, just a guest
13:54:50 From Frode Hegland To Adam Wern(privately) : 🙂
13:56:45 From Matthias mprove : PermaLink to the whale above: :: context, the whale has stranded at Antwerp on 5-Jul-1577. People actually climbed into and explored its mouth.
14:05:42 From Matthias mprove : Ted Nelson 1966 :: Hard and Fast Thoughts for a Softcopy World at Rand Corporation (67 minutes audio) ::
14:12:37 From Matthias mprove :
14:17:54 From Matthias mprove : ^Bret Victor – did not draw a dead fish. He drew an abstract from and we all agree that this is supposed to be a fish. Bonus: Some simple algorithms makes the ”thing” even more fish-like.
14:19:19 From Matthias mprove : An object by Meret Oppenheim. Is it a cup at all??
14:23:08 From Matthias mprove : begreifen is a wonderful German word. It means both to touch something and to understand something.
14:24:58 From Matthias mprove : A Chinese proverb: Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn. Step back and I will act. /via
14:54:32 From Matthias mprove : A flap on a map that can be flapped with key E ::,9.98348&z=13.39&t=18&m=HHPPN608979805b&d=1&s=1&c=h
14:56:04 From Frode Hegland : Turning on record in about 5
14:56:07 From Frode Hegland : Getting tea
14:58:23 From Matthias mprove : Ordnance survey of Scotland,-1.30398&z=10.07&t=20&m=SUdy113jm6334&o=0.8&d=1&c=A
15:00:13 From Matthias mprove : Actually I have some “”annotations” for this already >>,-1.30398&z=5.75&t=20&m=SUdy113jm6334&o=0.8&d=1&i=1&c=A
15:01:33 From Frode Hegland : Starting recording again
15:02:32 From Matthias mprove : River Thames,-1.38955&z=10.31&t=19&m=GY1040NV-13&o=0.95&d=1&s=1&i=1&c=A
15:02:43 From Frode Hegland : I am here but snack so video pause
15:03:38 From Frode Hegland : But it can be…
15:04:09 From Mark Anderson : Reacted to “But it can be…” with 😀
15:05:41 From Mark Anderson : Reacted to “Screenshot 2023-05-12 at 16.04.05.jpg” with 👍🏻
15:15:33 From Matthias mprove : brand colors
15:17:41 From Fabien Benetou :
15:17:49 From Fabien Benetou : (to prove its live)
15:17:59 From Frode Hegland : Purple, dropbox. URL please
15:27:17 From Matthias mprove : more purple bubble outside in the sky
15:28:30 From Fabien Benetou : (environment built on )
15:31:48 From Frode Hegland :
15:50:44 From Matthias mprove : Visited text pages (in the sense of time spent on a page) could decay the color of the “paper”. This would support the action of browsing around . Much like this
15:57:16 From Frode Hegland : Yes, my father preferred fax paper because it did fade, for exactly that reason
16:03:01 From Frode Hegland : Have a day on what ‘natural’ affordances to bring into XR and which to completely re-invent later, second half?
16:05:18 From Fabien Benetou : could you share a visual again Andreea?
16:05:50 From Matthias mprove : I also have same old sheets of faxes –– hardly readable anymore b/c the thermo ink has faded away.
16:08:04 From Frode Hegland : It reminds me of Vernor Vinge’s ‘rainbow’s end’, the classroom presentation in AR
16:09:46 From Matthias mprove : The Early Work of Piet Mondrian
16:10:21 From Matthias mprove : The late Mondrian
16:18:26 From Mark Anderson : The idea that led Adam’s visualisation is this paper: (sadly Autodesk took the pages off their website)
16:19:27 From Mark Anderson : Also, Adam’s demo was essentially designed (first for) 2D, but the concept can be improved in the more plastic environment of VR.
16:20:56 From Mark Anderson : For Andrea, the ACM Conference demo Frode showed is at
16:21:13 From Matthias mprove : Kudos 2 Frode: I very much like your idea “text as a sculpture (in Author) ”
16:21:37 From Frode Hegland : Reacted to “Kudos 2 Frode: I ver…” with 👍
16:22:35 From Mark Anderson : !! SUMMARY
16:22:42 From Frode Hegland : 🙂
16:23:34 From Matthias mprove : Who is the Mary in Sum-Mary? Can we invite her the next time?
16:28:02 From Mark Anderson : This is the Tinderbox app using age colouring of note icons in some of it views(pecs). This was in the app at outset in 2002 and explicitly was based on the notion of ageing paper.
16:37:04 From Matthias mprove : my screenshot of the day – the future of Zoom?? Nope_ but fun::
16:38:08 From Fabien Benetou : Reacted to “Screenshot 2023-05…” with 😅
16:39:59 From Matthias mprove : also nice_

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