Chat Log : 27 November 2023


15:58:32 From Frode Hegland :
16:05:33 From Frode Hegland :
16:06:45 From Dene Grigar : We Descend, The Complete Edition
16:08:23 From Mark Anderson : More on ‘We Descend’:
16:10:06 From Dene Grigar :
16:12:44 From Fabien Benetou To Frode Hegland(privately) : “This exploration in WebXR is allowing to pick a document, here short code snippets (of the current page itself), and move them in space. If a document is pinched by the right hand it can be moved around. If it is released close to a finger of the left hand it will attach to it in a symbolic form, namely the wireframe of a box. When fingers are moved the now attached document will move accordingly. The box can then be picked up again and revert to the document as a readible code snippet. The idea behind this work is that we always know where our hands are in space, consequently one can move freely with documents always available. One can conceived this as a set of bookmarks. The overarching goal is to manipulate abstracts objects, namely documents, efficiently in space.” for Documents at hand, as a comment
16:13:00 From Frode Hegland To Fabien Benetou(privately) : For your piece from X?
16:13:10 From Leon van Kammen :
this is really amazing, it really adds the ‘experience’ to a reading experience (very rich compared to the average (e)book experience)
It feels really smooth with the fadein/fadeouts etc ❤️
16:13:22 From Fabien Benetou To Frode Hegland(privately) : yes page 220
16:15:16 From Frode Hegland To Fabien Benetou(privately) : Updated on the site, you can download new book
16:15:34 From Fabien Benetou : bit closer to an explorable explanation in a more aestethics than pedagogical sense
16:16:37 From Frode Hegland To Leon van Kammen(privately) : Go when they let you!
16:18:29 From Fabien Benetou To Frode Hegland(privately) : Reacted to “Updated on the sit…” with 👍
16:22:41 From Dene Grigar : For my lab, anything that can be expressed as 0s and 1s can potentially be text
16:23:02 From Dene Grigar : This would mean that digital images, sound, animation, etc are text
16:23:11 From Dene Grigar : Textual objects
16:23:40 From Dene Grigar : In XR, we are text.
16:26:55 From Dene Grigar : Here is a list of our of our reconstructions:
16:27:57 From Mark Anderson : Stretchtext!
16:28:01 From Fabien Benetou : we did share sth on semantic zooming
16:28:34 From Fabien Benetou :
16:28:40 From Mark Anderson : I jest slightly – strechtext has limitation t don’t quite follow Michael’s intent. But close.
16:29:26 From Peter Wasilko : I am rather fond of interlinear glosses.
16:33:24 From Dene Grigar : Jody Zellen’s Spine Novels explored that idea.
16:33:26 From Fabien Benetou : in terms of interactions could be distance (of head, HMD pose) to document or with hands, e.g where the number of words is proportional to distance from pulling away point
16:33:55 From Dene Grigar : Spine Sonnet, I mean
16:34:26 From Dene Grigar :
16:35:34 From Michael Bonfert : Reacted to “in terms of interact…” with 👍
16:39:24 From Peter Wasilko : Reacted to “in terms of interact…” with 👍
16:42:13 From Fabien Benetou To Frode Hegland(privately) : happy to talk about the Lynx whenever most appropriate
16:42:14 From Frode Hegland : Colour and personal choice for what to read.
16:42:29 From Frode Hegland : Glossaries are a great help. Should be expandable with stretch text.
16:45:50 From Mark Anderson : In XR the existence of glossary for the item could be a small visual affordance. The latter mechanism has already been shown the groups existing XR experiments.
16:45:57 From Dene Grigar : yes
16:47:45 From Mark Anderson : Signalling (whichever the medium) the intent/context of things to be hidden is an interesting problem.
16:48:06 From Mark Anderson : … not least when/why to unhide.
16:49:20 From Frode Hegland To Fabien Benetou(privately) : Go for lynx after Leon 🙂
16:49:55 From Frode Hegland : This is like using tools in XR for lenses. SO NICE
16:50:32 From Mark Anderson : Reacted to “This is like using t…” with 👍🏻
16:50:58 From Dene Grigar : Editors help with this process
16:51:15 From Peter Wasilko : Lenses are also a term of art in functional programming for bi-directional transforms, so looking through a lens in that sense might transform how an underlying model is rendered in 3-D.
16:52:30 From Dene Grigar : Killing your children is the metaphor
16:52:49 From Peter Wasilko : For our work, one might be able to enter that world and any changes made would be reflected in the data model so views through other lenses would remain in sync.
16:53:36 From Dene Grigar : The fun part of textual analysis is to look over versions of a work over time and see what the author added and subtracted from a work
16:54:04 From Dene Grigar : I am doing this now with MD Coverley’s Egypt: The Book of Going Forth by Day
16:56:35 From Frode Hegland To Fabien Benetou(privately) : I guess some Dene and then I have a quick comment on Leon but should be soon!!!!!
16:56:41 From Mark Anderson : I recall an interesting (Tinderbox-related) discussion between Mark Bernstein’ (app’s author) and Michael Bywater (and author using the app) on how he might plot the ‘intensity’ of the story: a form of visualising the narrative braid.
16:58:58 From Fabien Benetou To Frode Hegland(privately) : wish there was an alternative hand to say Im ready to speak but about another topic
16:59:23 From Frode Hegland To Fabien Benetou(privately) : Yea, I’ll have to do that manually…
17:00:30 From Peter Wasilko : Has anyone ever tried to visualize the interconnection between works in the Cthulhu Mythos?
17:03:10 From Mark Anderson : Interesting that a Google Docs document was—I’m told—never designed to have an end point. Like a wiki, every edit is there. Good for academic exploration. Ofc, without metadata [sic] understanding the deliberate points of use (versions) is harder to easily resolve.
17:03:44 From Mark Anderson : I definitely want a ‘Room of Requirements’.
17:03:55 From Frode Hegland : Tools and Harry Potter. Too much option for where to put things can become a lot of work for the reader. Two different design process to work on Reading and Authorship / Writing (not the same thing…)
17:05:06 From Frode Hegland : Leon, have a look at Fabien’s At Hand article. Can you do similar? It’s in the book
17:05:13 From Leon van Kammen To Frode Hegland(privately) : very interesting insights everybody, thanks I’m learning a lot!
17:05:32 From Frode Hegland To Leon van Kammen(privately) : That was direct to me! 🙂
17:06:55 From Dene Grigar : It will be nice to avoid Steam
17:09:51 From Fabien Benetou :
17:09:58 From Fabien Benetou :
17:14:32 From Alan Laidlaw : I missed that reference. I have no idea where you work, fabien
17:15:07 From Frode Hegland : Tools and Harry Potter. Too much option for where to put things can become a lot of work for the reader. Two different design process to work on Reading and Authorship / Writing (not the same thing…)
17:15:12 From Frode Hegland : Ops
17:15:17 From Frode Hegland : European Parliament
17:15:29 From Adam Wern : He entered 5D space
17:15:45 From Leon van Kammen To Frode Hegland(privately) : maybe Fabien pressed the 5D button instead of the 3D button?
17:16:30 From Leon van Kammen : sorry there goes my secret complaints
17:16:34 From Leon van Kammen : 😉
17:16:49 From Leon van Kammen : anyways, I wrote: “maybe Fabien pressed the 5D button instead of the 3D button?”
17:17:51 From Fabien Benetou : was too much for the browser 🙁
17:17:54 From Frode Hegland : Fabien, welcome back!!!
17:19:16 From Peter Wasilko : No Hard Sci Fi?
17:19:43 From Dene Grigar : SCIFY, not fantasy🙂
17:20:46 From Dene Grigar : La meme chose
17:21:27 From Mark Anderson : You spotted the glitch in the matrix?
17:21:31 From Peter Wasilko : Maybe we are in BSG style cyclical time.
17:21:40 From Alan Laidlaw : Reacted to “Maybe we are in BSG …” with 👍
17:22:38 From Dene Grigar : kings
17:22:44 From Dene Grigar : Queens and cats
17:23:31 From Dene Grigar : I am asked in all forms and applications to name my gender. Even N/A is not an answer
17:25:46 From Dene Grigar : I have got to get to campus
17:25:51 From Dene Grigar : Thanks, folks.
17:26:51 From Mark Anderson : In terms of (not) advances, last night I wader through pages of (OCR text: Ar9umentat10n and 1nf0rmat10n Farm1n9 C0n5truct1ve hypertext t0015have ev01ved 1nt0 tw0 6r0ad fam111e5that acc0mm0date tw0 d15t1nct … and no for 10 pages.
17:27:05 From Frode Hegland : Was that old OCR?
17:27:05 From Mark Anderson : Talk about bleeding eyeballs.
17:28:15 From Mark Anderson : We from 1997. Paper is (I was porting the article to Mintter as part of research for Hypertext ’24)
17:28:19 From Frode Hegland : Apple one now is pretty solid OCR
17:28:35 From Frode Hegland : Fabien, we need good open timelines!!!!! Multi level.
17:36:09 From Mark Anderson : They aren’t making time like the used to…
17:36:17 From Frode Hegland : Reacted to “They aren’t making t…” with 😂
17:37:47 From Peter Wasilko : There are some great natural time libraries for javascript that can deal with ‘last weekend’ or ‘a month ago’
17:41:27 From Mark Anderson : N.B. my observations on time weren’t meant as constraint but simply to open our horizons as to what we build.
17:41:37 From Frode Hegland : Reacted to “N.B. my observations…” with 👍
17:42:26 From Fabien Benetou :
17:42:36 From Fabien Benetou :
17:44:58 From Mark Anderson : For those interested in note-taking, I’m enjoying Roland Allen’s “The Notebook: A History of Thinking on Paper”
17:45:45 From Fabien Benetou :
17:46:03 From Mark Anderson : I’m hoping timeline in XR might offer new ways to handle the knotty problem of fuzzy/incomplete dates.
17:46:07 From Fabien Benetou : scrubbing and going backward but no going faster or slow (even though it does work)
17:46:45 From Peter Wasilko : Chat Circles employed vertical timelines for participants with horizontal bars to represent the length of text entries at each timestamp
17:47:09 From Fabien Benetou : cropping them, gives an affordance to concepts until then unmanipulable
17:47:19 From Fabien Benetou : (them being timelines here)
17:47:41 From Mark Anderson : Reacted to “Chat Circles employe…” with 👍🏻
17:48:06 From Peter Wasilko :
17:48:43 From Peter Wasilko :
17:49:39 From Fabien Benetou : some people here might not be aware of Brandel’s
17:49:55 From Peter Wasilko : Perfectly suited for an SVG implementation
17:50:06 From Fabien Benetou : (4 years ago)
17:54:33 From Peter Wasilko : I am going to have to drop in a few minutes.
17:54:44 From Frode Hegland : Timeline app for XR
17:55:08 From Peter Wasilko : Aeon Timeline
17:56:14 From Frode Hegland : Thanks Peter
17:56:15 From Frode Hegland :
17:56:39 From Adam Wern : Excel is one timeline app – number to charts
17:56:52 From Frode Hegland : Can be used for yes indeed
17:57:30 From Peter Wasilko : Fuzzy attention levels!
17:57:42 From Frode Hegland : It’s all about the metadata
17:57:56 From Frode Hegland : (Sorry, my mother called)
17:59:03 From Peter Wasilko : Sadly I’m out of time now, have a great week all!
17:59:20 From Fabien Benetou : I’ll have to run away soon too, have a wonderful week
17:59:50 From Frode Hegland : Leon, thank you!
17:59:57 From Frode Hegland : Got you email piece
18:00:16 From Bill Bly : Bye all — thanks for a great discussion! See you next week.
18:00:28 From Frode Hegland : FoT 4 (2023)(Frode-Hegland-2023-11-27T14/10/02Z)
18:03:37 From Frode Hegland : What does a clipping with time/date information to drag into and out of calendar look like Brandel?
18:06:06 From Mark Anderson : Leon’s question reminds me of the unrealised promise of Memex trails.
18:06:34 From Frode Hegland : iCal cutting to desktop opened in text edit
18:08:04 From Frode Hegland : Let us simply approach and do a sample standard.
18:09:05 From Mark Anderson : I’m also reminded, in terms of (academic) writing, time is rarely recorded. Plus, work is often reported post hoc— after /as the grant money runs out. Early tech history is really flaky in this regard. ‘when’ is something of a guess.
18:09:29 From Alan Laidlaw : Books are naturally semantic zoom. Bookshelves are another example of semantic zoom. Critically though, both are not designed for scale, so they have many more degrees of freedom.
Cartographies of time is a great book. Mainly as a time capsule. The book consists of data viz before there was such a thing, before standards. You have to figure out the logic of each piece, but they are not so rigidly scaffolded as digital equivalents.
18:09:42 From Mark Anderson : Reacted to “Books are naturally …” with 👍🏻
18:10:09 From Mark Anderson : ^^ Good book and one of kind. Sadly it stops just as the digital age kicks off.

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