Brief presentations by Frode Hegland, moderation by Dene Grigar. This follows our Midway presentation and we will discuss with the community where we should consider going next.
AI: Summary
This meeting focused on Frode Hegland’s proposal for enhancing XR reading experiences through a “summoning” system that would allow users to select text and invoke contextual information, 3D models, or other resources. The discussion explored how to embed metadata in links to control presentation parameters like scale and location, drawing inspiration from Frode’s existing Liquid tool. Participants debated the practical challenges of implementation, user interface design, and the balance between powerful features and usability. The conversation also touched on broader themes around AI in education, copyright issues with digital texts, and the changing nature of research and learning in academic contexts.
Tom Haymes, Dene Grigar, Mark Anderson, Frode Hegland, Peter Wasilko, Patrick Lichty, Rob Swigart, Jim Strahorn, Peter Dimitrios
AI: Speaker Summary
Tom Haymes discussed his architectural work on the West Houston Institute and shared concerns about copyright limitations when trying to use digital books in tools like Notebook LM. He emphasized the importance of teaching students how to properly use AI as a process helper rather than a replacement for thinking, sharing his teaching philosophy about making work meaningful rather than just busywork. He expressed interest in Frode’s summoning concept but emphasized the need for better user interfaces and AI integration to reduce setup complexity.
Dene Grigar opened by sharing a Guardian article about marginalia and book annotation practices. She questioned the practical value of Frode’s summoning proposal, asking what specific benefits it would provide to scholars. She shared insights from her work with the NEXT archive, particularly around 3D modeling and the importance of maintaining proper scale and context for historical artifacts. She also discussed challenges in education, noting how easy access to information hasn’t necessarily improved student research skills or critical thinking.
Mark Anderson provided technical perspectives on the complexity of Frode’s proposals, warning about overloading links with too much functionality and questioning the scalability of such systems. He shared experiences with publisher restrictions making academic research increasingly difficult and discussed the limitations of transclusion and stretch text in practice. He emphasized that most tools end up being more complex than users actually need, and highlighted the challenge of discoverability in knowledge management systems.
Frode Hegland presented his main concept of “summoning” contextual information in XR environments, drawing parallels to his Liquid tool. He emphasized the importance of allowing authors to embed rich metadata in links to control how 3D models and other resources are presented. Throughout the discussion, he advocated for making academic writing more interactive and expressive, arguing that XR provides unique opportunities to enhance how we interact with knowledge while maintaining that the goal is to supplement, not replace, traditional approaches.
Peter Wasilko contributed technical suggestions including the use of currying functions from the Lambda.js library and inverse parser approaches inspired by Chris Crawford’s game designs. He proposed using faceted search systems to manage large command spaces and suggested standoff markup approaches for linking 3D models to text entities. He also raised concerns about academic integrity in the age of AI, referencing the Butlerian Jihad from Dune as a metaphor for getting students to think independently.
Patrick Lichty shared experiences with Mesh and AI-generated 3D objects, connecting the discussion to Terence McKenna’s vision of objective language in VR. He mentioned his brief involvement with Wikipedia art interventions and expressed appreciation for Macromedia Director, noting the challenges of web-based preservation compared to CD-ROM formats.
Rob Swigart expressed enthusiasm for the 3D visualization aspects of Frode’s proposal, particularly the ability to manipulate and scale models like brain structures or architectural elements. He referenced the Vision Pro airport app as an example of effective 3D interaction and emphasized the importance of maintaining consistent scale when displaying multiple 3D objects together.
Jim Strahorn made brief contributions emphasizing the importance of mutual respect for different types of knowledge within the research community.
Peter Dimitrios participated minimally, only appearing in the chat reactions.
AI: Topics Discussed
The primary topic was Frode Hegland’s proposal for a “summoning” system in XR that would allow users to select text and invoke contextual information through enhanced links containing presentation metadata
Copyright challenges in academic research and digital text access, particularly with platforms like Kindle and academic publishers
The role of AI in education and research, including both benefits and concerns about student dependency on AI tools
3D modeling and visualization in XR environments, including issues of scale, context, and preservation
The evolution of digital media from CD-ROMs to web-based content and the trade-offs involved
Academic writing and research methodologies, including the challenge of encouraging critical thinking and proper research skills
User interface design for complex knowledge management systems and the balance between power and usability
The preservation and presentation of digital cultural artifacts, particularly through Dene’s work with the NEXT archive
Teaching strategies for engaging students with reading and writing in the digital age
The concept of making academic documents more interactive and multimedia-rich while maintaining scholarly standards
AI: Concepts Introduced
Summoning system – defined by Frode Hegland as a mechanism allowing users to select text in XR and invoke contextual information, 3D models, or other resources based on embedded metadata in links
Liquid – described by Frode Hegland as his existing tool that works across Mac applications, allowing users to select text and access a hierarchical menu of over 300 commands for various operations like searches, translations, and lookups
Currying functions – explained by Peter Wasilko as a concept from functional programming where functions can take multiple parameters incrementally, building up complex operations over time
Inverse parser – referenced by Peter Wasilko as an interface design approach from Chris Crawford that prevents users from constructing invalid commands by constraining available options
Stretch text – discussed by Mark Anderson as a concept where text can expand and contract to show different levels of detail, though he noted practical limitations in implementation
AI: People Mentioned
Ted Nelson – mentioned by Tom Haymes in context of a heavily annotated copy of “Geeks Bearing Gifts”, Frode Hegland used him as an example for search demonstrations, Mark Anderson noted his fame makes him easier to find than other people with the same name
Sarah Boxer – mentioned by Frode Hegland as a New York Times reviewer who gave Liquid a negative review 20 years ago, calling it a time-wasting tool
Amanda Askell – referenced by Mark Anderson as an example of someone people already know about but where changes may have occurred since the knowledge cutoff
Terence McKenna – mentioned by Patrick Lichty in context of VR fantasies about objective language
Chris Crawford – referenced by Peter Wasilko for his inverse parser and game design concepts
Martin Luther King – used by Dene Grigar as an example of how students fail to conduct basic research despite abundant online information
Robert Frost – mentioned by Peter Wasilko as an example for critical editions work in XR
Andy Weir – quoted by Tom Haymes for his saying about teaching writing giving people “crippling self-doubt for life”
Doug Engelbart – referenced by Mark Anderson in context of NLS system learning requirements
Richard Holtz – mentioned by Dene Grigar in context of a specific beach ball artifact being preserved in the NEXT archive
Jim Andrews – mentioned by Dene Grigar as someone whose Macromedia Director works are being recorded by the lab
Rob Swigart – thanked by Dene Grigar for donating CD-ROMs to the NEXT archive
Suzanne Treister – asked about by Patrick Lichty regarding whether her works are in the NEXT archive
AI: Product or Company Names Mentioned
Guardian newspaper – mentioned by Dene Grigar for an article on marginalia and book annotations, Tom Haymesnoted it became open access, Mark Anderson clarified it requires free login
Liquid – Frode Hegland’s Mac application tool for text manipulation and contextual commands
Notebook LM – mentioned by Tom Haymes as useful for searching digital documents and finding specific quotes with page references
Google Books – criticized by Mark Anderson for showing preview pages but not the referenced content
Kindle – discussed by Tom Haymes as an “enclosed box” that makes it difficult to extract ideas for research
Anna’s Archive – mentioned by Tom Haymes as a source for obtaining digital copies of owned books for research purposes
ChatGPT – referenced multiple times in context of AI use in education and resume writing
Google Scholar – mentioned by Dene Grigar and others as a research tool
Wikipedia – discussed by Tom Haymes regarding student laziness, Patrick Lichty mentioned Wikipedia art interventions
AltaVista and Yahoo – mentioned by Dene Grigar as early search engines used before Google
TikTok and BookTok – referenced in context of book annotation trends
Facebook – discussed by Tom Haymes and Dene Grigar regarding social media adoption in education
ACM Digital Library – mentioned by Frode Hegland as an example of specialized database searching
Houston City College (formerly Houston Community College) – where Tom Haymes teaches government classes
West Houston Institute – architectural project designed by Tom Haymes
Vision Pro – mentioned by Rob Swigart for its airport application as an example of good 3D interaction
Macromedia Director – discussed by Patrick Lichty and Dene Grigar for digital preservation work
NEXT archive – Dene Grigar’s digital preservation project for electronic literature
Lambda.js – JavaScript library mentioned by Peter Wasilko for functional programming features
Google Drive, Gmail, Calendar – mentioned as potential integration tools
LaTeX – referenced by Peter Wasilko with the reledmac package for critical editions
TEI XML – mentioned by Peter Wasilko as a format for digital humanities materials
Obsidian – referenced by Mark Anderson as an example of knowledge management tools
Mesh – mentioned by Patrick Lichty for 3D object creation
Xanadu – referenced by Peter Wasilko and Mark Anderson for transclusion concepts
AI: Agreements & Disagreements
Agreement emerged around the value of 3D visualization and spatial interaction, with Rob Swigart enthusiastically supporting Frode’s vision of manipulating 3D models and Dene Grigar sharing similar work with scaled artifacts
Disagreement occurred between Frode Hegland and Dene Grigar about the practical value of the summoning system, with Dene questioning whether it would provide essential benefits to scholars versus being merely additional features
Agreement was reached on AI’s proper role in education, with Tom Haymes and Dene Grigar both emphasizing that AI should be taught as a tool rather than a replacement for thinking
Disagreement emerged about the complexity of Frode’s link metadata proposal, with Mark Anderson warning about overloading links while Peter Wasilko offered technical solutions to manage the complexity
Agreement was found on the importance of making research and writing more engaging, though participants differed on methods – Frode advocating for XR enhancement while Dene emphasizing traditional reading comprehension skills
Disagreement appeared about CD-ROM technology, with Frode initially dismissing them as “information ghettos” while Dene Grigar and Mark Anderson defended their advantages for preservation and self-contained distribution
Agreement existed on the fundamental challenge of getting students to think critically and engage with material, though solutions varied from oral exams (Peter Wasilko) to hands-on AI training (Dene Grigar)
AI: Other
The meeting revealed interesting generational and disciplinary perspectives on technology adoption, with Dene Grigar’sexperience in digital preservation providing historical context for current challenges. The discussion highlighted ongoing tensions in academic work between embracing new technologies and maintaining scholarly rigor. Frode’s presentation style showed his deep investment in the XR vision while also demonstrating openness to criticism and refinement of ideas. The conversation also revealed the practical constraints researchers face, from copyright restrictions to limited time for implementing complex systems, suggesting that successful tools need to balance ambition with usability.
Chat Log URLs
The chat log shows active engagement from participants with relevant links and reactions. Frode shared the meeting summary early on, Tom provided links to his architectural work and blog, Peter Wasilko contributed technical resources about LaTeX and critical editions, and Mark Anderson shared an MIT research paper about AI’s impact on learning retention. The reactions and brief comments in chat supported the main discussion themes around technology, education, and research methodologies.
Important elements that readers might miss:
The meeting represents a tension between theoretical vision and practical implementation that characterizes much academic technology research. Frode’s passionate advocacy for XR enhancement of academic work reflects broader questions about how emerging technologies can genuinely improve scholarly practice rather than simply adding complexity. The participants’ diverse backgrounds – from digital preservation to architecture to teaching – created a rich dialogue that grounded abstract concepts in real-world constraints and opportunities. The discussion also revealed how current AI developments are forcing reconsideration of fundamental educational and research practices, with implications extending far beyond the immediate XR focus.