AI: Summary
This was a Future of Text meeting focused on discussing what comes next after the current Sloan Foundation funded project exploring text in XR environments. The meeting featured presentations on potential applications of VR for writers and entertainment, discussions of philosophical commentary systems, mixed reality teaching tools, and collaborative document management. Key themes included the need for better tools for creative writers, the importance of spatial organization of information, challenges with current funding landscapes, and the necessity of building working demonstrations to advance the field. The group emphasized the value of community collaboration and the revolutionary potential of improved knowledge tools.
Frode Hegland, Dene Grigar, Karl Arthur Smink, Tess Rafferty, Fabien Bénétou, Ken Perlin, Tom Haymes, Peter Wasilko, Mark Anderson, Jimmy 6DOF
AI: Speaker Summary
Frode Hegland emphasized the importance of tools in shaping thought and creativity, arguing passionately that the development environment should be recognized as integral to the quality of ideas produced. He expressed frustration with Apple‘s recent design decisions and stressed the need for demonstrations over theoretical discussions, drawing inspiration from Doug Engelbart‘s approach. He advocated for citizens being armed with better information tools as part of a knowledge revolution and maintained his optimistic view that helping people think better will create a better world.
Dene Grigar focused primarily on project management and funding realities, explaining the current financial landscape for academic research and the challenges of securing grants. She outlined the timeline for their Sloan Foundation project, emphasized the need to think about future directions, and shared practical insights about team composition and budget requirements. She also discussed the potential for spatial personas in VR collaboration and expressed disappointment that Apple hasn’t advanced this technology further.
Karl Arthur Smink proposed a sophisticated system for organizing philosophical and religious commentary using VR to visualize interpretive trees of texts. He described a multi-layered approach where users could navigate through base interpretations and their refinements in an immersive environment. Later, he shared an anecdote about Hank Green‘s simple phone-blocking app becoming the number one app on the App Store, illustrating how simple behavioral interventions can have massive impact.
Tess Rafferty presented her vision for immersive television experiences where viewers could explore show settings, participate in interactive elements, and engage with communities around familiar fictional worlds. She emphasized the potential for bridging entertainment and technology sectors and later described her need for a tool to help manage her book series, including character tracking and structural analysis across multiple manuscripts.
Fabien Bénétou consistently advocated for programming capabilities within XR environments, emphasizing the importance of being able to reshape environments from within rather than requiring external development pipelines. He discussed collaborative aspects, federated self-hosting solutions for document management, and shared insights about media literacy through his experience helping children create videos using traditional storyboarding techniques.
Ken Perlin demonstrated his work on mixed reality tools that maintain consistency between Zoom meetings and XRenvironments, showing how objects can serve as windows between different spaces. He focused on creating seamless transitions for teaching applications, particularly for computer graphics education where 3D modeling demonstrations are crucial.
Tom Haymes approached the discussion from a storytelling and creative perspective, emphasizing the need to think about how different narrative media complement each other rather than replace them. He argued for treating technology as invisible step stools for creativity and stressed the importance of understanding when to use different media for different storytelling purposes.
Peter Wasilko recommended resources on software visualization and emphasized the value of physical libraries for creating unexpected encounters between like-minded individuals. He advocated for crowdsourcing and local-first approaches, suggested collaboration with ink and switch, and highlighted the problems with software-as-a-service models that disempower end users.
Mark Anderson criticized the current state of academic information infrastructure as “garbage built on garbage” while emphasizing that this wasn’t intentional but rather the result of outdated systems. He argued for moving beyond fighting traditional publishers toward building better solutions and stressed the importance of having proper information to work with.
Jimmy 6DOF reflected on the current vocabulary-formation phase of XR development, comparing it to early internet development when Tim Berners-Lee struggled to explain concepts that didn’t yet exist. He emphasized the fertile ground for exploration and the need to find the right ideas whose time has come.
AI: Topics Discussed
The meeting covered funding challenges and the realities of academic research grants, with detailed discussion of the $250,000 Sloan Foundation grant and the broader funding landscape. Participants explored various applications of XRfor creative and educational purposes, including immersive television experiences, philosophical commentary systems, and mixed reality teaching tools.
Document ownership and management was a significant theme, with emphasis on local-first approaches and federated self-hosting solutions to avoid dependence on external servers. The group discussed the importance of building working demonstrations rather than just theoretical frameworks, drawing from Doug Engelbart‘s legacy.
Programming within XR environments emerged as a key capability, with discussion of WebXR advantages and the need for scaffolding tools. The conversation touched on media literacy, storytelling across different platforms, and the revolutionary potential of better knowledge tools.
Technical implementation challenges were addressed, including file format support, collaborative editing, and the balance between simplicity and advanced functionality. The meeting also covered the importance of spatial organization of information and non-Euclidean knowledge spaces.
AI: Concepts Introduced
Reply feature – Karl Arthur Smink described a former YouTube feature that allowed posting videos as direct replies to other videos, with automatic linking to provide context.
Interpretive trees – Karl Arthur Smink introduced the concept of visualizing philosophical and religious commentary as branching tree structures in VR, where base interpretations spawn sub-interpretations and refinements.
Federated self-hosting – Fabien Bénétou defined this as multiple parties hosting copies of the same documents that can communicate with each other, ensuring data persistence and user control without relying on single servers.
Local-first – Peter Wasilko referenced this approach to software that prioritizes local data storage and processing over cloud-based solutions.
AI: People Mentioned
Steve Jobs by Frode Hegland in context of Apple‘s declining innovation, Tim Cook by Frode Hegland as current Apple CEO focused on financial performance rather than revolutionary products, Doug Engelbart by Frode Hegland as mentor and inspiration for demonstration-based approach to technology development, Carl Linnaeus by Frode Heglandas early user of index cards for knowledge organization, Plato by Karl Arthur Smink as example of philosopher whose work spawns interpretive trees, Tim Berners-Lee by Jimmy 6DOF regarding early internet vocabulary challenges, Hank Green by Karl Arthur Smink as creator of successful phone-blocking app, Ed Leahy by Frode Hegland as late Syracuse University professor who inspired the core question about future of text, Ray Bradbury by Peter Wasilko who shared a 1975 keynote link, McLuhan by Tom Haymes in context of narrative transitions across media layers, Brendel Zachernuk by Frode Hegland as person who pushed the group into XR space, Edgar by Frode Hegland as his eight-year-old son, Emily by Frode Hegland in context of wife’s aunty visiting from Japan
AI: Product or Company Names Mentioned
Apple by Frode Hegland expressing disappointment with recent design decisions including rounded corners, Vision Proby Dene Grigar praising spatial personas feature, YouTube by Karl Arthur Smink describing former reply feature, Google Drive by Frode Hegland and Fabien Bénétou discussing document ownership concerns, WebXR by Ken Perlin and Fabien Bénétou as preferred development platform, Unity by Fabien Bénétou contrasting with WebXRadvantages, Zoom by Ken Perlin in context of mixed reality teaching tools, Next Cloud by Fabien Bénétou as self-hosting alternative to Google Drive, TikTok by Fabien Bénétou in context of media literacy, Elsevier by Mark Anderson mentioning their skunkworks division, ChatGPT by Karl Arthur Smink comparing app rankings, App Storeby Frode Hegland and Karl Arthur Smink discussing app distribution and rankings, Author by Frode Hegland as his writing application, ink and switch by Peter Wasilko suggesting collaboration, Sloan Foundation by Dene Grigar as current grant funder, Mellon Foundation by Dene Grigar as potential funder, NSF by Dene Grigar noting eliminated funding, Bandersnatch by Dene Grigar discussing interactive television
AI: Agreements & Disagreements
Frode Hegland and Tom Haymes had a constructive disagreement about the importance of tools in creative work. Frodeargued that tools should be recognized as integral to the creative process and that people should appreciate the technology behind creative works, while Tom preferred tools to be invisible step stools that don’t interfere with the creative vision. Both eventually agreed on the importance of having the right tools available across a spectrum of capabilities.
The group generally agreed on the importance of document ownership and avoiding dependence on external servers, with Fabien Bénétou and Frode Hegland strongly supporting local-first approaches. There was consensus on the need for better funding mechanisms and the challenges facing academic research.
Most participants agreed on the revolutionary potential of better knowledge tools, though they approached this from different angles – Frode from individual empowerment, Tom from storytelling capabilities, and others from technical implementation perspectives.
AI: Other
The meeting revealed significant frustration with current funding landscapes, particularly the elimination of government grants for exploratory research. Dene Grigar provided sobering context about university budget cuts and the concentration of innovation funding in Europe rather than the United States.
The discussion highlighted a tension between technical capability building and practical application development, with Fabien Bénétou preferring prototype development while Frode Hegland emphasized the need for polished demonstrations.
The meeting demonstrated the collaborative nature of the group, with participants building on each other’s ideas and showing genuine interest in diverse applications of their XR text technology, from creative writing to philosophical commentary to educational tools.
Chat Log URLs
The transcript indicates that Peter Wasilko shared a link to a 1975 Ray Bradbury keynote, but the specific URL was not captured in the main transcript. The chat log section referenced is not included in the provided document.
Chat Log Summary
The chat log section mentioned in the instructions was not included in the provided transcript document, so no separate chat log summary can be provided.
Important Context for Future Readers
Future readers should understand that this meeting occurred during a critical transition period for the Future of Textproject, with only four months remaining on their Sloan Foundation grant and pressure to demonstrate concrete outcomes. The funding challenges discussed reflect broader changes in research support that have shifted innovation centers from the United States to Europe.
The technical discussions about XR implementation reveal a community grappling with early-stage technology where basic interactions (like moving text in space) can feel profound, suggesting the field is still in its foundational development phase. The emphasis on demonstrations over theoretical work reflects lessons learned from Doug Engelbart‘s experiences and the practical necessity of showing tangible results to secure continued funding.