AI: Summary
This Future of Text meeting on September 1, 2025, focused on Patrick Lichty’s presentation about virtual narratology and spatial information structures in XR environments. Patrick then delivered an extensive presentation tracing his work from early hypertext experiments in the 1990s through contemporary XR projects, exploring concepts like spatial text, embodied cognition, and haptic interfaces for information manipulation. The discussion covered theoretical frameworks from scholars like N. Katherine Hayles and Espen Aarseth, examined historical projects like Ted Nelson’s Xanadu and Roy Stringer’s NaviHedron, and addressed practical challenges of implementing complex information structures in virtual environments. Key themes included the tension between artistic exploration and practical utility, the importance of embodied interaction with text and data, and the potential for XR to create new forms of narrative experience beyond traditional linear structures.
Frode Hegland, Dene Grigar, Patrick Lichty, Tess Rafferty, Tom Haymes, Fabien Bénétou, Mark Anderson, Brandel Zachernuk, Leon Van Kammen, Peter Wasilko, Jimmy Sixdof, Karl Arthur Smink, Rob Swigart, Peter Dimitrios, Stephanie (mentioned but brief appearance)
AI: Speaker Summary
Frode Hegland served as the meeting moderator and project co-PI, providing updates on the Future of Text Volume VI book project and discussing the cube-based XR interface being developed. He emphasized the importance of spatial data being open and accessible, questioned the practical utility of purely artistic XR experiments, and advocated for grounding XR experiences in familiar human-scale interactions while allowing for creative extensions. Hegland showed particular interest in how spatial information structures could help users organize and navigate knowledge, and he stressed the need for embodied interaction that builds on rather than abandons familiar spatial metaphors.
Dene Grigar co-moderated the session and provided context for Patrick’s work, drawing connections to feminist theory and techno-feminism from the 1990s and early 2000s. She emphasized the importance of re-embodiment and the breakdown of the Cartesian mind-body split in XR environments. Grigar highlighted the significance of creating “born virtual objects” with their virtual keyboard system, contrasting this with traditional approaches of importing external content. She also provided logistical updates about the hypertext conference and their formal testing plans for the annotated bibliography project.
Patrick Lichty delivered the main presentation, tracing his 35-year career working with virtual environments and spatial narratives. He discussed his concept of “virtual narratology” and presented numerous historical projects including his 1994 web piece “Recursor,” his award-winning “Grasping at Bits” from 2001, and recent VR works like “The Ireland Project.” Lichty emphasized the importance of embodied cognition in virtual environments, haptic interfaces for text manipulation, and the potential for XR to create new forms of narrative experience. He expressed interest in pulling text elements out of documents as three-dimensional, manipulable objects and creating “thought molecules” from interconnected information structures.
Tess Rafferty participated as next week’s presenter, asking practical questions about applications and expressing concerns about the usability of virtual environments for writers. She emphasized the importance of tactile and auditory feedback, particularly suggesting that virtual keyboards should make sounds to provide proper user feedback. Rafferty approached the discussion from a writer’s perspective, focusing on practical considerations for how these technologies might actually be used in creative work.
Tom Haymes contributed observations about the multidimensional nature of XR environments, emphasizing that these spaces offer not just three dimensions but also time and layers as navigational elements. He discussed the potential for AI to help create more complex narrative structures and connections, and advocated for moving beyond simply extending 2D paradigms into 3D space. Haymes showed interest in non-linear narrative structures and the philosophical implications of information ownership.
Fabien Bénétou provided technical input about 3D model formats (particularly glTF/GLB), discussed the virtual keyboard implementation with spatial audio capabilities, and shared relevant research links throughout the session. He demonstrated responsiveness to user feedback by implementing keypress sounds for the virtual keyboard during the meeting. Bénétou also contributed references to architectural concepts like Yona Friedman’s spatial urbanism and process philosophy resources.
Mark Anderson contributed technical and historical perspective, sharing visualizations of citation networks within the Future of Text corpus and discussing preservation challenges for digital artworks. He raised questions about the practical accessibility of historical XR projects and emphasized the importance of open data formats. Anderson also provided relevant academic references and drew connections to cybernetics and information city concepts.
Brandel Zachernuk focused on the practical challenges of information visualization, particularly the problem of connection density in network visualizations. He provided specific examples of UI scalability issues and emphasized that visualization methods must be appropriate to the number of elements being displayed. Zachernuk also discussed the flexibility of human spatial adaptation and referenced the importance of anticipating changes in virtual environments.
Leon Van Kammen contributed thoughts about filtering and preview systems for complex information structures, comparing XR navigation challenges to problems with traditional file compression formats like zip files. He suggested using AI-driven preview systems and global filtering preferences to help users navigate complex information spaces without becoming overwhelmed. Van Kammen also shared enthusiasm for gravity-based navigation experiments.
Peter Wasilko provided reference materials and asked practical questions about accessing Patrick’s presentation materials. He contributed relevant book recommendations and ISBN information for resources discussed during the session.
AI: Topics Discussed
What was discussed regarding WebXR? The discussion touched on web-based VR through Mozilla Hubs (now Hubs Foundation) as a platform that Fabien mentioned for experiencing 3D content. There was reference to the Future Text Lab website providing access to XR experiments that participants could try at home using various headset types.
What was discussed regarding gestures? Gesture-based interaction was a significant theme throughout Patrick’s presentation. He discussed his interest in haptic interfaces inspired by the Minority Report interface system developed by John Underkoffler. Patrick described envisioning users being able to physically “pull out” words from texts as three-dimensional extrusions that could be manipulated in space. The discussion also covered arm-based interactions for rotating and scaling cube interfaces, with specific mention of two-arm gestures for cube rotation and vertical movements for scaling. The conversation addressed the challenge of accommodating users who might be seated at desks versus those who can move freely in space.
Were other topics discussed? The conversation covered numerous other topics including Ted Nelson’s Xanadu system and concepts of transclusion, the historical development of hypertext and spatial text from the 1990s onward, Roy Stringer’s NaviHedron and Danny Brown’s Noodle Box as examples of 3D information navigation systems, memory palace concepts dating back to Cicero, and the theoretical framework of embodied cognition from scholars like N. Katherine Hayles and Erin Manning. Discussion also included cybernetics and systems thinking, the challenges of preserving digital artworks and maintaining access to historical software, and the tension between artistic exploration and practical utility in XR development.
Were there any interesting anecdotes? Patrick shared several compelling personal stories, including his experience being separated from his wife for four and a half years due to immigration issues, which influenced his work on presence and absence in virtual spaces. He described his early collaboration with biochemistry researchers at Bowling Green University to create VR environments for molecular docking, allowing users to “walk on” RNA structures to better understand their surfaces and interactions. Patrick also mentioned his collection of working slow-scan transceivers in his closet, connecting to historical telecommunication art practices. Frode shared his initial negative reaction to connecting information cards with lines in Mozilla Hubs, describing it as creating an unpleasant “washing line” effect in the virtual space.
Did anyone seem to change their position during the call? There wasn’t evidence of dramatic position changes, but there was notable convergence on several points. The discussion about the utility versus artistic value of XR experiments seemed to evolve toward recognizing both perspectives as valid and necessary. Patrick and Frode found common ground on the distinction between wholesale adoption of non-Euclidean geometry versus specific parametric shifts like altering gravity in targeted ways.
What were the major outcomes of this session? The session established Patrick’s theoretical framework of “virtual narratology” as a significant contribution to the group’s thinking about spatial text. There was advancement in thinking about how to balance embodied interaction with creative possibilities in XR environments. The group gained clarity on the distinction between extending familiar spatial metaphors versus completely abandoning them for abstract approaches. Practical progress was made with Fabien implementing keypress sounds for the virtual keyboard during the meeting itself. The discussion also reinforced the importance of open spatial data formats and the need for preservation strategies for digital art and experimental interfaces.
AI: Concepts Introduced
Virtual Narratology – Defined by Patrick Lichty as his approach to creating narrative experiences in virtual environments that emphasize embodied cognition and spatial relationships with text and information.
NaviHedron – Described by Patrick as Roy Stringer’s interface system using icosahedral structures for organizing and navigating information through associative connections.
Noodle Box – Referenced by Patrick as Danny Brown’s 3D paradigm for information structures using architectural typologies to create navigatable information cities.
Born Virtual Objects – Discussed by Dene Grigar as objects created natively within virtual environments rather than imported from external sources, exemplified by their virtual keyboard system.
Thought Molecules – Patrick’s concept for combining different platonic solids as information structures to create complex, interconnected knowledge representations.
AI: People Mentioned
Joseph Frank (spatial form theory), W. Stuart Moulthrop (hypertext literature), W.J.T. Mitchell (word image media), Dino Larsen (early multimedia narratives), Ted Nelson (Xanadu system), Stephen Holden (perspective view), Roy Stringer (NaviHedron creator), Paul Brown (associated with Danny Brown), Danny Brown (Noodle Box creator), N. Katherine Hayles (embodied virtuality theory), Erin Manning (embodied cognition), Espen Aarseth (ergodic literature), John Underkoffler (Minority Report interface), Negin (Patrick’s wife and collaborator), BP Nichol (concrete poet), Lawrence Lessig (Free Culture wiki work), Frode (mistranscribed as Freud), Muriel Cooper (MIT spatial text work), Bob Stein, Vannevar Bush, Andreas Dieberger (Information City), Cicero (memory palace), Stafford Beer (cybernetics), Ranulph Glanville (cybernetics), Gordon Pask (cybernetics), Norbert Wiener (cybernetics), Roy Ascott (telematic art), Robert Adrian (telecommunications art), Hank Bull (telecommunications art), Helen and Joanne (Turbulence commissioners), Yona Friedman (spatial architecture), Summer (Interface Cultures), Mingyu (Interface Cultures co-author), Stephane Bonatti/Minotti (practice-based research), Edward Shanken (Roy Ascott scholar), Mahdi Bahrami (Engare creator), Carlos Medina (Cybersyn book author)
AI: Product or Company Names Mentioned
Xanadu, CorelDRAW, SuperCollider, The Brain (Natural Fish Oil), Ars Electronica, American Museum of American Art, Smithsonian, QuickTime VR, Google Maps, Second Life, Electronic Literature Organization, Unreal Engine, HoloLens, Autodesk Vred, Gravity Sketch, Mozilla Hubs, Hubs Foundation, Turbulence, Free Culture, Bowling Green State University, Washington State University, Sloan Foundation, ACM (Association for Computing Machinery), Hypertext Conference, Future Text Lab, Apple Vision Pro, Blender, glTF, GLB, Khronos Group, Steam (Nanoscape VR), WordPress, Tinkerbox, PSDI (Preservation of Software-Dependent Information), Flash, Director, Twine, JavaScript, JSON
AI: Other
The meeting demonstrated the ongoing challenge of balancing theoretical exploration with practical implementation in XR development. Patrick’s presentation served as a valuable historical perspective, connecting current XR work to decades of prior experimentation in spatial information systems. The technical responsiveness shown by Fabien in implementing the keyboard sound feature during the meeting highlighted the collaborative and iterative nature of the project development. The discussion revealed ongoing tensions between different approaches to XR interface design, from skeuomorphic representations to more abstract spatial arrangements. The preservation challenges mentioned for historical digital artworks underscore the importance of open formats and sustainable development practices for current XR projects.
Chat Log URLs
The chat log reveals active parallel discussion among participants sharing relevant resources and making observations about the presentation topics. Participants shared numerous academic and technical references, demonstrating deep engagement with the material. The chat shows technical problem-solving in real-time, particularly around audio issues and Fabien’s implementation of keyboard sounds. There were also lighter moments, with jokes about NSA surveillance and customer service hold experiences, showing the collegial atmosphere of the group. The extensive sharing of URLs demonstrates the participants’ commitment to providing additional context and resources related to the discussion topics.