Chat : 4 April 2022

Transcript: https://futuretextlab.info/2022/04/11/tr-4-april-2022-2/

16:08:17 From Mark Anderson : I can give brief summary of progress on Bob’s mural. Would welcome feedback from Adam/Fabien of how resultant granular data might be of best use to them for prototyping/experiment.
16:10:13 From Frode Hegland : “Just a minute!”
16:15:10 From Peter Wasilko : xpath is a black art
16:16:14 From Peter Wasilko : this used to work with older Tinderbox files:
16:16:17 From Peter Wasilko : def get_attribute_for_node_in_document(attribute, node, document)

if attribute=="text"

    return document.xpath( "//item[@ID='#{node}']/text").as(XML::NodeSet)[0].inner_text

else

    return document.xpath( "//item[@ID='#{node}']/*[@name='#{attribute}']/text()").to_s

end

end
16:17:07 From Mark Anderson : God point that not either/or but new affordance, for those who need it in a new environment.
16:17:32 From Mark Anderson : God → Good. :O
16:19:06 From Peter Wasilko : So I don’t know if it isn’t returning the expected results because Tinderbox changed its XML or Crystal changed its behavior.


16:22:28 From Brandel Zachernuk :
The VR folding is here: https://zachernuk.neocities.org/2022/folding/

16:23:42 From Fabien Benetou :
related PoC https://mobile.twitter.com/utopiah/status/1257410087666225158 on collaborative in/out of VR

16:24:05 From Adam Wern : For, me the first person I need to convince is not Vint, but rather myself 🙂(in terms of what is better in VR than other media)
16:24:48 From Adam Wern : And that require much more personal exploration for me (aka the 6 month honeymoon / experimentation phase)
16:25:43 From Fabien Benetou : could be interesting to get videos of news paper edition prior to QuarkXPress…
16:26:19 From Frode Hegland : fair point Adam, but at the same time we do think something will be useful right? So need to test right? 🙂
16:26:20 From Fabien Benetou : I remember spending time in a printing house as they transition to digital. I’m sure there is something to learn from the physical process, with actual cisors.
16:28:09 From Fabien Benetou : @Peter: I wasn’t sure what you meant initially by “literate programming” and then while checking on Wikipedia saw Observable on top… so I guess I’m doing literate programming 😉
16:28:10 From Adam Wern : Yes, I’m just think we moved to the pitching phase quickly, without a good sense of what is most meaningful to do in VR
16:31:06 From Frode Hegland : I hope that making the pitch will help us realise this
16:31:21 From Frode Hegland : even if it comes to 1 month and we realise we were on the wrong track
16:31:25 From Frode Hegland : something…
16:31:26 From Peter Wasilko : Eureka! I was passing the wrong ID to the xpath! I sent $ID which was the idea of the Note Alias in the Tinderbox agent invoking my Crystal code instead of $ID(original)
16:31:47 From Peter Wasilko : *was the ID of the Note Alias
16:35:33 From Daveed : Search is hard in VR
16:37:03 From Mark Anderson : @ Peter 👍
16:39:20 From Adam Wern : I’m also leaning towards this Palette/Library approach
16:39:41 From Adam Wern : Which is a bit different than something more coherent (like VR-pitch)
16:41:04 From Adam Wern : I mean Library of VR experiments, or micro-museum

16:42:20 From Fabien Benetou :
I try to do this in https://fabien.benetou.fr/Tools/Eink or https://fabien.benetou.fr/Tools/Hubs and more recently https://twitter.com/utopiah/status/1509836806015049733 but lacked the rigor for now

16:43:09 From Fabien Benetou : for the record I suggested put a visual representation together
16:43:22 From Fabien Benetou : not the actual functunality

16:46:30 From Fabien Benetou :
(another list of PoCs, sadly also not composable https://vatelier.benetou.fr/Demos/Demos )

16:49:25 From Mark Anderson : Thanks – that’s some listing 🙂
16:49:26 From Adam Wern : The questions is whether such a pitch is MORE valuable than 10 small experiments documented
16:49:58 From Daveed : I like making the mural the sales pitch

16:50:59 From Daveed :
Imagining something like this: https://prezi.com/np8qohvh5fvo/why-ceptr/

16:52:06 From Fabien Benetou : My analogy was about describing a pizza to someone who never tasted one.
16:53:40 From Fabien Benetou : I still give demo for 1st timers, to keep that perspective. Not “just” to be helpful 😉

16:56:42 From Peter Wasilko :
Even without a headset using my SpaceMouse https://3dconnexion.com/us/product/spacemouse-wireless/ in SineSpace https://sine.space is quite compelling.

16:57:36 From Brandel Zachernuk :
Oo apparently people have three.js support for it! https://3dconnexion.com/technical_support/web_threejs.html

16:57:36 From Frode Hegland : yes, that ‘operating system’ level stuff is fantastic and impressive. Also if someone enters your gurardian space they appear as outlines..
16:58:32 From Daveed : I must go to scheduled activity. See u soon
16:58:37 From Frode Hegland : later
17:01:58 From Adam Wern : Not, right now. But I’m very interested in doing that in a ~ year, but rather a product than demo (possibly open source-ish). Short term I believe in doing 15 small things, and then evaluating what is most valuable, or rather meaningful
17:02:43 From Adam Wern : (Sorry home alone with 2,5 & 5 year olds, so juggling)

17:03:30 From Mark Anderson :
Sorry for those not aware Tinderbox is a macOS only noting/PKM app http://www.eastgate.com/Tinderbox/index.html

17:04:26 From Mark Anderson : Nothing special other than Peter and I use it a lot. App has deep hypertext roots but don’t read reference to it as a ‘sell’ 🙂

17:08:30 From Peter Wasilko :
State of the Art line breaks for VR: http://litherum.blogspot.com/2015/07/knuth-plass-line-breaking-algorithm.html

17:12:58 From Brandel Zachernuk :
Hi Bob! I got folding ready to be able to fold a mural: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2bClDGLSys

17:15:43 From Frode Hegland : On the twitter chat

17:16:12 From Brandel Zachernuk : https://zachernuk.neocities.org/2022/folding/

17:17:45 From Fabien Benetou : too much coolness, Chromium can’t handle that.
17:19:56 From Adam Wern : (But it would probably work nicely with multi-touch in 2d)
17:31:23 From Brandel Zachernuk : Ahh, I think I’m generating too much geometry (rebuilding the planes per frame, which probably kills it

17:37:48 From Peter Wasilko :
Maybe we need a logo: http://litherum.blogspot.com/2009/10/evil-corporation-logos.html

17:44:24 From Fabien Benetou : publicly available json
17:47:21 From Adam Wern : I think this community is open, and people share code, ideas and documents very freely – and to me the discussions are very stimulating. Pitching is lower priority, because I don’t know what “boring stuff” we need to develop until we know what is useful.
17:51:04 From Frode Hegland : can you share as articles then Adam, not just as tweets?
17:54:54 From Adam Wern : The things that are scraped from my tweets are usually my pictures + captions – which is exactly my point -> many people really like visuals
17:55:13 From Mark Anderson : I wish I could draw well, but my drawings are like my writing.
17:55:51 From Fabien Benetou : not actually required for storyboarding, even a stick figure is a useful starting point
17:56:03 From Mark Anderson : Point taken :
17:56:11 From Mark Anderson : )
17:56:35 From Fabien Benetou : it’s even possible to copy/paste it 😛
17:57:31 From Mark Anderson : @fabien 🙂

18:01:21 From Fabien Benetou :
and a new one in https://hubs.mozilla.com/3eWs27r/from-demos-palette-to-augmented-process/ on the process with some start of demos (sorry just mine for now) as a palette of potential integration toward a goal

18:03:08 From Mark Anderson : In terms of text, I have 5.k words already extracted.
18:05:19 From Mark Anderson : So, I have a 5k word document regardless of any visual elements. The text is *currently* in Tinderbox only as its the best tool to hand at this stage of the process. I see not problem in the text going into an Author document, as body copy, and as glossary and citation info.
18:08:00 From Peter Wasilko : Is there any documentation on the .liquidstore file format, I see it is XML but has data blocks in it like AAACJGFwcGwEAAAAbW50clJHQiBYWVogB+EABwAHAA0AFgAgYWNzcEFQUEwA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18:08:12 From Mark Anderson : Also whilst the Journal structure is in flux, can we not storyboard the current content, in terms of VR implementations? Even if only as a strawman. At worst we get a better fix on what is (VR) pertinent in the journal.
18:08:55 From Mark Anderson : @Peter is that the images in base64?
18:10:20 From Peter Wasilko : It is what I find inside an Author file that only has the text: This is a test.
18:11:07 From Peter Wasilko : in Content.liquidstore
18:11:23 From Peter Wasilko : inside the package contents for the Test file
18:11:57 From Fabien Benetou : @Mark I dont have a well curated set of repositories, I wish
18:12:52 From Fabien Benetou : I have to run away unfortunately. Take care everyone
18:13:18 From Brandel Zachernuk : I have to drop at 15 past the hour for my workday – I’m actually really glad that we have surfaced this conflict / tension, though, and glad to continue the discussion. Sorry that it’s frustrating
18:13:38 From Peter Wasilko : I have to bow out too, much to do today.
18:14:06 From Peter Wasilko : See you on Friday unless Mom needs me then.
18:15:35 From Adam Wern : And I’ve got so many responses that I never post, they are not good enough

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