17:05:10 From Peter Wasilko : Having brunch with Mum, so no live cam today.
17:06:13 From Frode Hegland : no problem Peter
17:10:30 From Peter Wasilko : https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/192757.192759
17:13:09 From Peter Wasilko : https://www.csdl.tamu.edu/~cathycmarshall/viki-sidebar.html
17:13:14 From Mark Anderson : !! issue just raised was re pp57-58 of Visual Languages (Bob’s book)
17:14:03 From Peter Wasilko : The above links relate to VIKI which supported Spatial Parsing.
17:15:50 From Mark Anderson : !! VIKI. Sadly already lost to scholars. VKB, VIKI’s successor exists but has no installer (lost in disk crash).
17:16:02 From Fabien Benetou : or one 1 line e.g description https://url ?
17:16:03 From Mark Anderson : !! https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/192757.192759
17:16:11 From Mark Anderson : !! https://www.csdl.tamu.edu/~cathycmarshall/viki-sidebar.html
17:16:20 From Mark Anderson : !! The above links relate to VIKI which supported Spatial Parsing.
17:16:43 From Mark Anderson : (no shade at @Peter in the re-post above 🙂 )
17:16:58 From Peter Wasilko : @Mark, thanks!
17:19:00 From Mark Anderson : !! in an academic environment useable references/citations are a non-trivial requirement.
17:19:13 From Peter Wasilko : !! Maybe we want Creative Commons – Choose Your Features – Licensing Model that we can apply to Mural Elements as Visual Meta. https://creativecommons.org/share-your-work/
17:20:01 From Peter Wasilko : *want a
17:23:32 From Peter Wasilko : This is part of why I hate Software Patents, they cost a mint and only buy you a ticked to sue someone; in which case all too often whoever has the deepest pockets wins.
17:24:04 From Mark Anderson : Amen
17:26:01 From Mark Anderson : !! structured abstracts: https://www.nlm.nih.gov/bsd/policy/structured_abstracts.html
17:26:24 From Mark Anderson : !! not necessarily primary reference for that concept.
17:28:42 From Peter Wasilko : We need to put more value on the teaching side of academia, I had one prof. once who was a publication demigod in the department but couldn’t teach someone to brew a cup of tea if his life depended on it.
17:36:13 From Frode Hegland : !! question about mural: What is background and what is scale/key and should user set where it shoudl be?
17:36:23 From Mark Anderson : Yes!
17:36:56 From Frode Hegland : so how can we import other timelines as well? History of text is one, of course. how to make it available? timeline DJ
17:40:42 From Peter Wasilko : !! Timeline DJ’s about 4 sec back!
17:41:23 From Mark Anderson : !! Timelines of real always have a problem of data having neither an even temporal distribution nor suiting the same temporal scale throughout.
17:44:06 From Fabien Benetou : unfortunately I am.
17:45:21 From Mark Anderson : !! Not much writing on timelines (visualisation) but I recommend: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7789323-cartographies-of-time
17:46:53 From Peter Wasilko : !! Timeline Ontology: http://motools.sourceforge.net/timeline/timeline.html
17:47:23 From Mark Anderson : !! problem of ‘lossy’ dates. 1805 vs 21 October 1805, etc.
17:48:08 From Mark Anderson : @peter, thanks
17:53:45 From Peter Wasilko : !! Really Neat Hierarchical Chronology Ontology Visualization: https://core.tdar.org/ontology/4857/eafwg-chronology-ontology
17:54:08 From Peter Wasilko : Click on solid dots to extend tree into sub-periods!
17:54:59 From Peter Wasilko : !! W3C OWL-Time Ontology: https://www.w3.org/TR/owl-time/
17:57:45 From Peter Wasilko : Organization subclass axes – incorporated or unincorporated; formal – informal; local – county – state/province – national – international – global – interplanetary!
18:01:09 From Peter Wasilko : !! We should really define the grammar with a Parsing Expression Grammar that could be used to generate a working parser!
18:04:56 From Mark Anderson : !! Pantograph: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantograph
18:05:35 From Peter Wasilko : Now we clip things into Devon Think all day long!
18:06:53 From Peter Wasilko : @Frode, could Until be an arbitrary COMPUTABLE predicate?
18:07:37 From Peter Wasilko : (E.G. until Gas exceeds $5/Gallon)
18:08:28 From Peter Wasilko : or ‘Until the Sumer Solstice’
18:09:08 From Mark Anderson : 👍
18:10:49 From Peter Wasilko : !! If we support Until, could we have Whenever to capture on again -off again conditions? (e.g. ‘Drought : Whenever quarterly average monthly rainfall is less than .45 inches’)
18:13:14 From Frode Hegland : remember this is for a timeline, not for objects in their entirety! !!
18:20:56 From Peter Wasilko : !! Well a computable timeline auto-entry predicate could save making hundreds of manual entries and key off an external data feed.
18:22:14 From Fabien Benetou : (brb)
18:22:17 From Peter Wasilko : !! and the Visual Meta each entry could encode the computed property and provenance of the data it was applied to!
18:22:30 From Peter Wasilko : *Meta for each
18:26:37 From Peter Wasilko : Should we think about creating a query language for interacting with mural semantics?
18:28:02 From Mark Anderson : !! Steps A through E as it happens but still makes sense.
18:30:31 From Fabien Benetou : (back)
18:30:39 From Frode Hegland : hello
18:30:45 From Peter Wasilko : primitives could include: largest , to the of , etc….
18:32:03 From Peter Wasilko : !! see aTbRef for a nice treatment of having a designator concept to establish referents
18:33:55 From Mark Anderson : !! The above JSON lacks reference to image within the mural but could have with a deeper deconstruction.
18:37:09 From Mark Anderson : !! Peter is referring to https://www.acrobatfaq.com/atbref9/index/ObjectsConcepts/Concepts/Actions/Designators.html
18:38:40 From Peter Wasilko : @Mark, hold them up again please so I can do a screen shot
18:39:54 From Frode Hegland : Elements: Timed events. Concepts/Glossary terms (ideas, people and things). Background. Guide elements.
18:40:27 From Mark Anderson : @Peter will email links.
18:40:47 From Peter Wasilko : @Mark, even better! Many thanks!
18:42:37 From Peter Wasilko : Could time radiate out from the center?
18:45:16 From Frode Hegland : would be nice Peter
18:46:03 From Peter Wasilko : afk for a min
18:46:04 From Mark Anderson : !! Layouts, aka view specs.
18:47:59 From Peter Wasilko : back
18:50:41 From Fabien Benetou : https://makepad.dev/
18:51:59 From Mark Anderson : @Peter, links emailed
18:52:12 From Fabien Benetou : by https://twitter.com/rikarends
18:52:13 From Peter Wasilko : @Fabien – WOW!
18:52:40 From Frode Hegland : thought you’d like it Peter
18:53:21 From Frode Hegland : Edgar referred to the VR headset the other day as a type of binocular. I like that
18:54:49 From Peter Wasilko : Defocus your eyes to that in 3-D!
18:54:55 From Peter Wasilko : *to see that
18:59:13 From Fabien Benetou : recurrent, e.g monthly, just on academic text works for me
19:00:33 From Frode Hegland : fade away all without meta, then re-org…
19:02:01 From Mark Anderson : !! remediation is necessarily opinionated so context can/will suffer.
19:06:04 From Frode Hegland : recurrent, ok, makes sense
19:07:17 From Peter Wasilko : See you all Monday!
19:11:35 From Frode Hegland : NIC
19:12:10 From Mark Anderson : NIC FTW
Resulting Visual-Meta after discussion: https://visual-meta.info/2022/09/02/timeline/