17:03:34 From Fabien Benetou to Everyone:
(next time hopefully)
17:08:46 From Frode Hegland to Everyone:
Leon, you here?
17:08:56 From Frode Hegland to Everyone:
Where is Brandel and Alan?…
17:09:19 From Leon van Kammen to Everyone:
I’m here, getting my audio to work ..hold on
17:09:29 From Frode Hegland to Everyone:
Reacted to “I’m here, getting my…” with 👍
17:10:01 From Fabien Benetou to Everyone:
related https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/WebXR_Standards_and_Accessibility_Architecture_Issues and https://github.com/immersive-web/webxr/blob/main/accessibility-considerations-explainer.md https://xraccess.org/
17:10:15 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
My favorite personal turn of phrase is “Elite but not Elitist”
17:10:46 From Fabien Benetou to Everyone:
there is also https://frontendmasters.com/courses/3d-webxr/accessibility/ whom I know well, she could do a presentation here Im sure, if timing aligns
17:10:53 From Frode Hegland to Everyone:
Comments to Sloan Comments: https://thefutureoftext.org/replies-to-sloan-review-comments/
17:11:45 From Dene Grigar to Everyone:
Peter: as I said my students are not elite but elite thinkers
17:12:31 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
Replying to “Peter: as I said my …”
Well said!17:12:39 From Michael Bonfert to Everyone:
Reacted to “Peter: as I said my …” with ❤️
17:13:54 From Dene Grigar to Everyone:
I see art as the sandbox of higher level thinking
17:15:23 From Fabien Benetou to Everyone:
(did mention things like that for https://git.benetou.fr/utopiah/offline-octopus but didn’t use the expression “streaming documents”)
17:16:38 From Dene Grigar to Everyone:
Here is the article about Tim Rice/Cook🙂: https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/11/tech/tim-cook-risks-his-legacy-on-a-pricy-product-in-an-unproven-market/index.html
17:19:24 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
I recently discovered an XR community called the XReality Academy founded by a Dominique Wu. https://xrealitypro.com & https://www.xreality.academy/home
17:20:16 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
I attended an amazing free talk there by Curtis Hickman of The VOID. https://www.xreality.academy/c/events/magic-and-experience-design-crafting-virtual-wonders
17:22:03 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
The XReality site has a free side with zoom events and a paywalled side with more elaborate courses (at $89/month for membership).
17:22:33 From Fabien Benetou to Everyone:
(should do AI summary catch up)
17:23:10 From Dene Grigar to Everyone:
Peter, thank you for sharing. Do people have to commit to a year or is it a pay by month situation?
17:24:08 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
I am guessing it would be a month by month recurring credit card charge until cancellation.
17:24:25 From Dene Grigar to Everyone:
OK, Thanks
17:25:26 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
I think we should invite Dominique to speak to the group.
17:25:49 From Fabien Benetou to Everyone:
for ref https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebDAV
17:27:04 From Fabien Benetou to Everyone:
(with for the anecdote “Requirements for a Distributed Authoring and Versioning Protocol for the World Wide Web” RFC 2291, issued February 1998, so more than 25 years ago)
17:28:07 From Dene Grigar to Everyone:
Fabien +1
17:29:10 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
I am also happy to report that The VOID is being rebooted. https://www.thevoid.com/
17:29:21 From Fabien Benetou to Everyone:
Reacted to “I am also happy to…” with 👍
17:29:26 From Michael Bonfert to Everyone:
Reacted to “I am also happy to r…” with 🥳
17:29:36 From Michael Bonfert to Everyone:
Replying to “I am also happy to r…”
I hope internationally? 😄17:29:47 From Fabien Benetou to Everyone:
Peter : still reading Hyper-Reality from Hickman
17:30:19 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
They create impossible experiences with XR on stages that employ tricks like Redirected Walking to create an infinitely long straight corridor and re-entrant rooms that feel like different spaces at different scales.
17:31:45 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
I’m reading it too: https://www.amazon.com/Hyper-Reality-Art-Designing-Impossible-Experiences/dp/B0C8R5X99M/
17:31:53 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
It is a must read for all of us!
17:32:51 From Brandel Zachernuk to Everyone:
I need to feed my cats, I will be free very soon!
17:32:51 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
We might be able to team up with The VOID or one of the other studies developing XR for the Themed Entertainment Industry.
17:33:19 From Dene Grigar to Everyone:
Peter, just bought it.
17:33:52 From Fabien Benetou to Everyone:
actual example https://developers.home-assistant.io/docs/api/rest/
17:33:58 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
Last week I attended the Blooloop online Festival of Innovation and there are a number of players looking at the tech for Museum Exhibits as well pure entertainment.
17:34:49 From Dene Grigar to Everyone:
Peter, one of my goals for The NEXT, the virtual museum/library my lab built and maintains for born digital art, games and lit, is to move it into a VR environment.
17:34:50 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
https://blooloop.com
17:35:12 From Dene Grigar to Everyone:
Right now, it is built around the notion of virtuality, liveness
17:35:25 From Michael Bonfert to Everyone:
It’s hard to pull myself away here, but I’d better get back to writing… Take care everyone ❤️
17:35:35 From Dene Grigar to Everyone:
Bye, Michael
17:36:02 From Fabien Benetou to Everyone:
Reacted to “https://blooloop.c…” with 👍
17:36:28 From Fabien Benetou to Everyone:
FWIW on the topic https://git.benetou.fr/utopiah/offline-octopus/issues/18
17:40:17 From Frode Hegland to Everyone:
Not storage, transmission
17:40:26 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
One of Curtis’ observations from the book is that we can reduce motion sensitivity in VR by simulating a very fast acceleration/deceleration on either end of a constant speed movement over a large area; this works because the visual system kicks over to null acceleration traveling in a vehicle mode before the inner ear recognizes that it wasn’t being feeling the Delta V that started the movement.
17:40:41 From Fabien Benetou to Everyone:
Peter : did you try The Void?
17:41:23 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
Sadly not, my sense is that they totally nailed preventing sim sickness for their users!
17:41:38 From Dene Grigar to Everyone:
Believe me, I am not tied to working with pdfs.
17:41:51 From Frode Hegland to Everyone:
Reacted to “Believe me, I am not…” with 😂
17:43:47 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
I wish we could support Knuth/Platt line breaks and micro-typography in XR, failing that I”m toying with the idea of using the LaTeX “Standalone” package to pre-render text blocks using LaTeX and then either pull them in as images or perhaps convert them to SVG.
17:44:20 From Dene Grigar to Everyone:
Peter, text blocks=packets?
17:45:09 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
Paragraphs of text output constrained by a target line width.
17:45:34 From Dene Grigar to Everyone:
17:46:06 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
Rendering time for LuaLaTeX to typeset tiny blocks of content like that would be negligible.
17:46:30 From Dene Grigar to Everyone:
Never enough
17:47:26 From Dene Grigar to Everyone:
Reading, interacting, manipulating
17:47:43 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
For example :
17:47:45 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
\documentclass[varwidth=3in, crop=true, margin=2mm]{standalone}
\usepackage{microtype}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\begin{document}\fontspec{Recursive}This could be any block of text that we want to have typset.
\end{document}
17:48:36 From Adam Wern to Everyone:
Maybe Skip multiplayer, but keep multi client (vr/desktop/ phone?)
17:48:38 From Fabien Benetou to Everyone:
I was hooked on Quake2 and 3 for way too long to admit, competitively…
17:49:15 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
Sadly, micro type protrusion doesn’t seem to be working with standalone, so it isn’t clear if microtype is having any effect. I’d have to run some text paragraphs through and compare their rendered PDF output to tell.
17:50:07 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
But this is the output we’d get.
17:50:09 From Frode Hegland to Everyone:
https://www.theonion.com/quake-claims-500-hours-1819565271
17:50:33 From Dene Grigar to Everyone:
Taking a break to feed the cat before he starts biting me
17:50:50 From Fabien Benetou to Everyone:
Reacted to “https://www.theoni…” with 😄
17:51:27 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
https://crdt.tech
17:52:11 From Fabien Benetou to Everyone:
Replying to “https://crdt.tech”
used in collaborative text (and code) editors17:53:01 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
https://www.inkandswitch.com/local-first/
17:53:21 From Fabien Benetou to Everyone:
Reacted to “https://www.inkand…” with 👍
17:55:20 From Leon van Kammen to Everyone:
I’m a bit confused where the webdav thing comes in after all the talk about webservers 🙂
17:55:21 From Dene Grigar to Everyone:
I am glad we are using Reader. We did not mention it in the grant proposal but it is what was in my mind
17:57:17 From Dene Grigar to Everyone:
My team starts on this project January 1, but they have been aware of it since the grant proposal process and full on onboarding starts next Monday
17:58:21 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
The imba language is about to enter Beta and it is the ideal tool for UI development. I will try to get it to play with A-Frame as we move forward.
17:59:16 From Frode Hegland to Everyone:
Who has seen “for all mankind”?
17:59:20 From Frode Hegland to Everyone:
Hi Bob!
17:59:51 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
Some of us older folks are completely unbounded too!
18:00:03 From Rob Swigart to Everyone:
I’ve seen FAM
18:04:43 From Dene Grigar to Everyone:
One summer month of my academic salary
18:07:45 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
https://3dconnexion.com/us/
18:11:19 From Dene Grigar to Everyone:
From a born-digital literature perspective, Peter, I am personally interested in VR as a way to be inside text
18:11:41 From Dene Grigar to Everyone:
The lack of the platonic separation of me and that
18:11:50 From Dene Grigar to Everyone:
Self and other
18:12:20 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
@Dene, did you see David Small’s early Media Lab work?
18:12:40 From Fabien Benetou to Everyone:
could be just pluggable, exposing the right interface to use that input, without the support it, not implementation but explaining how it could be done
18:13:55 From Rob Swigart to Everyone:
Dene I’m on board with born digital so I’m trying to absorb all the possibilities. This will be a very rich environment for still unknown experiences.
18:14:23 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
https://acg.media.mit.edu/projects/thesis/DSThesis.pdf
18:14:51 From Adam Wern to Everyone:
Voice input would be high on my list for stretch goals
18:18:03 From Rob Swigart to Everyone:
My POV voice is essential
18:18:16 From Dene Grigar to Everyone:
So, can we agree that we meet our obligations to Sloan with an eye to opportunities for expansion?
18:18:29 From Dene Grigar to Everyone:
There can be other grants
18:18:58 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
Another neat aspect of the 3D Connexion tech is that one could theoretically have multiple controllers in use at the same time, say one in each hand.
18:19:31 From Fabien Benetou to Everyone:
(what is Alan playing with… origami XR?)
18:21:06 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
Not necessarily now, just leave integration hooks in place.
18:21:22 From Dene Grigar to Everyone:
I need to get ready to head to campus.
18:21:43 From Fabien Benetou to Everyone:
Reacted to “I need to get read…” with 👋
18:22:06 From Dene Grigar to Everyone:
I am
18:27:49 From Fabien Benetou to Everyone:
Im too lazy for that, I used libraries
18:28:09 From Frode Hegland to Everyone:
Peter, you really, really need to get and use a modern headset for part of this discussion… 🙂
18:29:15 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
https://github.com/standard-webhooks/standard-webhooks
18:31:06 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
I can try to ping it from imba too.
18:31:20 From Fabien Benetou to Everyone:
you dont need auth
18:31:28 From Frode Hegland to Everyone:
Is there a way for the system to know it’s local?
18:31:46 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
It can tell if it is online or offline
18:32:10 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
Oh different sense of local
18:34:24 From Adam Wern to Everyone:
Which data?
18:38:25 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
Back with coffee in hand.
18:39:23 From Leon van Kammen to Everyone:
no data = no spec
perhaps top ~5 usecases need to get identified to get to a spec, which could produce data & protocol
18:39:49 From Leon van Kammen to Everyone:
unless you write the spec after hacking something together 🙂
18:42:06 From Frode Hegland to Everyone:
For the test PDF: https://visual-meta.info/visual-meta-ai/
18:42:29 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
https://atjson.condenast.io/docs/getting-started
18:48:30 From Leon van Kammen to Everyone:
Ladies and gents, I have to take to care of something.
I will catch up by watching the recording tomorrow.
cheers!
18:49:08 From Mark Anderson to Everyone:
… must … fight … will … to … comment … on … PDF. 🤣
18:49:50 From Frode Hegland to Everyone:
Reacted to “… must … fight … wil…” with 😂
18:51:28 From Fabien Benetou to Everyone:
Reacted to “… must … fight …” with 😂
18:52:18 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
How about foo.pdf in the same folder as foo.vm for standoff Visual Meta or foo.vm.pdf for a pdf with embedded Visual Meta and a command line tool to turn foo.vm.pdf into foo.vm + foo.pdf or to turn foo.vm + foo.pdf into foo.vm.pdf?
18:53:46 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
Reacted to “… must … fight … wil…” with 😂
18:55:09 From Mark Anderson to Everyone:
Interesting to read the Sloan examiner’s comments. Unsurprisingly (and likely age related) there is a presumption that use of text in XR == reading as in a paper book today. Similarly, text interchange seems to be seem in terms of (epistolary) typing to one another. Happily, I think we already see a much richer interaction.
18:57:02 From Fabien Benetou to Everyone:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidecar_file could also revert back to original if need be
18:59:17 From Mark Anderson to Everyone:
I like to think of the XR space more in a sense of a construct (Matrix!) or the ST holodeck. We only add skeuomorphic elements if needed. IOW they follow from the documents’/data’s rather than pre-emptive background. Saves computing objects we may not need. Don’t mean any of that dogmatically.
18:59:41 From Fabien Benetou to Everyone:
cutest knowledge graph I’ve seen I admit
18:59:50 From Mark Anderson to Everyone:
Reacted to “cutest knowledge gra…” with 👍🏻
18:59:51 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
Reacted to “https://en.m.wikiped…” with ❤️
19:00:03 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
Replying to “https://en.m.wikiped…”
I LOVE this concept!19:00:23 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
Reacted to “I like to think of t…” with ❤️
19:00:23 From Frode Hegland to Everyone:
Maybe a Library document. PDF! OK, maybe plain text?…
19:00:32 From Fabien Benetou to Everyone:
for damn’s question on the library representation https://github.com/janeczku/calibre-web
19:00:58 From Fabien Benetou to Everyone:
s/damn/Adam/ damn
19:02:36 From Alan Laidlaw to Everyone:
Reacted to “cutest knowledge gra…” with 👍🏻
19:02:52 From Frode Hegland to Everyone:
Maybe a Library as RSS then?
19:04:33 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
And I’d love to have a compact way to represent the LateX source for a project in say a single YAML file with original data while support files referenced from a TeX distribution would just be incorporated by reference. Then we could full source access and not have to deal with inferring it from the rendered PDF.
19:04:43 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
Reacted to “Maybe a Library as R…” with 👍
19:05:14 From Brandel Zachernuk to Everyone:
Oh I have some work stuff, I will have to drop. This has been very productive!
19:05:14 From Alan Laidlaw to Everyone:
Is everyone familiar with ELO UnConference?
19:05:22 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
Time flies with a scintillating discussion like this!
19:05:27 From Alan Laidlaw to Everyone:
Deadline for proposals is dec 15
19:05:39 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
@Alan do you have url?
19:05:54 From Alan Laidlaw to Everyone:
https://dtc-wsuv.org/projects/access-works-conference/
19:06:09 From Mark Anderson to Everyone:
Reacted to “https://dtc-wsuv.org…” with 👍🏻
19:06:45 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
Reacted to “https://dtc-wsuv.org…” with 👍🏻
19:07:53 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
… must resist the urge to design an entirely new infrastructure from the ground up …
19:08:18 From Alan Laidlaw to Everyone:
Reacted to “… must resist the ur…” with 😂
19:09:31 From Rob Swigart to Everyone:
Must go now, greatly informative meeting
19:12:50 From Mark Anderson to Everyone:
BTW, meant to apologise for late join: conflicting IRL work meeting.
19:18:29 From Alan Laidlaw to Everyone:
Think about it as a game. The world and the interaction mechanism are codependent.
19:18:41 From Frode Hegland to Everyone:
Reacted to “Think about it as a …” with 👍
19:19:49 From Fabien Benetou to Everyone:
gotta go, take care, kudos again on the grant, let’s build sth interesting together
19:20:00 From Frode Hegland to Everyone:
What do you mean by grammar?
19:20:15 From Alan Laidlaw to Everyone:
For the record, I very much want to be an XR specialist. I think there are entirely new UX opportunities and there are even concepts for what a true XR “wireframe” would contain.
19:20:16 From Mark Anderson to Everyone:
My dataset actually has all authors as data points Tinderbox notes!). Authors are also normalised for name variants. The later isn’t in the current dataset but just ask.
19:21:01 From Alan Laidlaw to Everyone:
Sorry, – aren’t concepts. Wireframes shouldn’t work in XR. like send morse code when you have a telephone
19:21:21 From Alan Laidlaw to Everyone:
Gotta go, all
19:21:30 From Frode Hegland to Everyone:
Later
19:24:26 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
Same PEG production: Name = FirstName LastName / Nickname
19:24:55 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
Which means match a first name then a land name or assume it is all just a nickname
19:25:25 From Adam Wern to Frode Hegland(Direct Message):
Can someone save this chat and email. Cant save on mobile
19:25:43 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
I really should skin the PEG grammar definition grammar with a quasi natural language syntax!
19:25:54 From Frode Hegland to Adam Wern(Direct Message):
Reacted to “Can someone save thi…” with 👍
19:27:05 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
I hate how academia ever went with initials instead of full names.
19:31:54 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
… must resist the urge to reinvent LaTeX …
19:34:53 From Mark Anderson to Everyone:
My HT’22 paper in HTML form: https://www.shoantel.com/proj/acm-ht/Hypertext-meta-history/index.html#foot-fn1
19:34:53 From Peter Wasilko to Everyone:
For transfer protocol {grammar: “visual-meta.peg”, intent: “merge”, text: “… yadda yadda yadda …”}