Frode Hegland presented on “Authoring Volumes” in XR, focusing on the concept of a “cube” as both a metaphor and practical interface for knowledge work in spatial computing. His presentation emphasized the complexities of authoring in XR environments, highlighting the challenges of interface design and interaction methods. Frode proposed separating workspace knowledge from authored content through a manuscript cube accessed via wrist menus. He described various interface options including HUDs, action cubes, tool belts, and floating control panels, while expressing concerns about gesture interfaces due to operating system conflicts and user learning curves. A key focus was how to fold and unfold information in space, manage relationships between objects, and implement citation in XR environments. Frode emphasized the need to move beyond theoretical concepts to practical implementations, explaining how the cube would function both as a personal notepad and as a formal academic knowledge space with proper citation capabilities. His presentation aimed to spark discussion about specific interaction designs to address the fundamental questions of how knowledge work translates to spatial environments.
Frode Hegland, Dene Grigar, Fabien Benetou, Stella Wisdom, Karl Arthur Smink, Ken Perlin, Karl Hebenstreit, Mark Anderson, Alan Laidlaw, Abhirami Ajith Kumar, Jim Strahorn, Peter Wasilko, Rob Swigart, Elijah Schwirian, Jimmy Sixdof, Tom Haymes, Brandel Zachernuk, and Leon van Kammen.
Below are links to specific locations in the video above:
Presentation
FTL Demos
Community Demos
Spontaneous, brief demos naturally flowing in the session:
AI Summaries
Frode Hegland, co-PI on the Future of Text project, focused on authoring in XR and the concept of knowledge objects and cubes.
Dene Grigar, co-PI on the Future of Text grant with Frode, working on The NEXT project for preserving digital artifacts in VR.
Fabien Benetou, moderator of the meeting and prototype developer for the Future of Text project based in Brussels, Belgium.
Stella Wisdom, interim head of contemporary British and Irish collections at the British Library, interested in future publishing.
Karl Arthur Smink, PhD student at Mississippi State University studying virtual reality and oxytocin responses.
Ken Perlin, professor of computer science at New York University, focused on socially shared mixed and blended reality.
Karl Hebenstreit, works at the US General Services Administration, PhD student studying Organizational Development based on Engelbart’s work.
Mark Anderson, hypertext researcher from Portsmouth, UK, interested in the connection between XR and spatial hypertext.
Alan Laidlaw, based in Brooklyn, works on puzzle interface experiments.
Abhirami Ajith Kumar, PhD scholar in English from IIT Kanpur, India, researching experimental narratives and textuality.
Jim Strahorn, architect from Menlo Park interested in information spaces and organization.
Peter Wasilko, attorney with computer science background, involved in end-user programming and hypertext.
Rob Swigart, writer and early hypertext author based in Menlo Park.
Elijah Schwirian, philosophy student working on a PhD in anti-corruption.
Jimmy Sixdof, interested in immersive analytics and presentation of complex ideas in 3D text space.
Tom Haymes, technologist and founder of Idea Spaces, working on AI-driven knowledge mapping.
Brandel Zachernuk, works on web standards design including HTML model element and 3D CSS, interested in extended mind and embodied cognition.
Leon van Kammen, based in Budapest, focused on spatial computing and XR fragments for controlling 3D models via URLs.
AI: Summary
This Future of Text meeting on March 3, 2025, moderated by Fabien Benetou, featured Frode Hegland presenting on authoring in XR environments, with a focus on the “cube” concept as an interface for knowledge work in spatial computing. The meeting included demonstrations of WebXR prototypes by Fabien, a sync server by Peter Wasilko, interactive word visualizations by Ken Perlin, and parameterized 3D objects by Brandel Zachernuk. Key discussions revolved around interface options for manipulating knowledge objects in XR space, citation methods, and the representation of academic work in spatial environments. Participants explored the tension between skeuomorphic design and born-virtual objects, methods for folding/unfolding information in 3D space, and techniques for organizing relationships between knowledge objects. Dene Grigar shared updates on “The NEXT” project for preserving digital artifacts in VR, while Leon demonstrated XR fragments technology for adding interactivity to 3D models without additional code. The meeting highlighted collaborative efforts to define the future of text in spatial computing, with particular focus on academic use cases like annotated bibliographies and knowledge mapping.
AI: Speaker Summary
Frode Hegland presented on “Authoring Volumes” in XR, focusing on the cube as both a metaphorical and practical interface for knowledge work in spatial computing. He outlined the complexities of authoring in XR, highlighting challenges in interface design, interaction methods, and the semantic organization of information. Frode emphasized the need to separate workspace knowledge from authored content, proposing a manuscript cube accessed via wrist menus. He detailed various interface options including HUDs, action cubes, tool belts, and floating control panels. Frode was particularly concerned with how to fold and unfold information in space, how to manage relationships between objects, and how citation should work in an XR environment. He defined several key concepts including the cube, knowledge objects, annotations, workspaces, and binders.
Fabien Benetou moderated the meeting and demonstrated a prototype with highlighting capabilities and URL-based customization. He showed how users could customize their environment by changing parameters in URLs, demonstrating text highlighting features and the ability to organize content spatially. Fabien highlighted how documents could snap to panels that could fold into a cube, suggesting this as a practical implementation of Frode’s concept. He emphasized the importance of making demos that remain functional over time and showed various practical implementations of the theoretical concepts being discussed.
Dene Grigar discussed “The NEXT” project which preserves digital artifacts in VR by creating 3D models of physical objects from digital literature history. She explained her approach of ensuring physical objects maintain their real-world properties in virtual space, mentioning an upcoming interface update adding a ruler for scale reference. Dene was excited about Leon’s XR fragments implementation and discussed a grant to expand the project beyond the current 24 objects to cover more of her 108 boxes of physical archives. She also raised questions about the nature of “born virtual” objects versus digital representations of physical items.
Ken Perlin demonstrated interactive word visualizations in 3D space and shared his 29-year-old “kinetic poetry” experiment from 1996. He emphasized the importance of shared visual experiences in XR where everyone sees the same elements from their own perspective. Ken discussed his lab’s approach to creating free XR word games to gather data on human behavior for training AI systems. He expressed the view that we’re approaching an “XR singularity” where XR devices will become socially invisible, similar to smartphones today.
Peter Wasilko demonstrated a backend sync server that allows data to be pushed to and retrieved from a remote server. His system used URL-based commands to manipulate data, supporting operations like append, remove, get, set, dump, and reset. Peter explained how this could be used to share data between users in an XR environment, showing real-time synchronization between different clients.
Brandel Zachernuk presented parameterized 3D objects including books and boxes with configurable properties. He emphasized the importance of material properties in conveying meaning in XR, discussing how objects in digital space should maintain the depth of dimensionality that physical objects have. Brandel focused on the distinction between skeuomorphic design and more authentic digital representations that acknowledge materiality as an informational channel.
Tom Haymes was interested in connections between objects and the concept of “breadcrumbs” in spatial information systems. He suggested that connections between objects might be more important than the objects themselves and proposed the cube concept as a teaching tool where connections could be shared and overlaid for discussion. Tom was particularly interested in expanding reference systems to show not just immediate connections but networks of references.
Leon van Kammen demonstrated XR fragments for controlling 3D models via URLs, showing how adding fragments to a GLB model could enable interactions without additional code. He was interested in discovering simple but powerful uses of WebXR and spatial computing that might be overlooked by mainstream developers, focusing on personal rather than multi-player experiences.
Mark Anderson viewed the cube concept as a “volume within a volume,” suggesting that academic papers are just the visible part of an iceberg of data. He proposed that the cube’s faces could represent different facets of a work, allowing engagement with various interlinked parts including citations and underlying data. Mark noted that mapping print-ready data to XR spaces revealed the need for different types of data than traditionally used.
Karl Arthur Smink asked questions about interaction design for selecting and manipulating objects in XR, suggesting that icons and text don’t need to be mutually exclusive. He proposed navigation methods for multidimensional spaces using a string of unfolds to share positions, and discussed the parameterization of objects to encode information.
Stella Wisdom shared her background as interim head of contemporary British and Irish collections at the British Library, mentioning her interest in the future of publishing and emerging formats. She recalled attending the very first Future of Text symposium and expressed regret at not having attended more over the years.
Jim Strahorn introduced himself as an architect interested in visually self-evident text and information spaces, mentioning his interest in how information can be organized following Doug Engelbart’s principles.
Rob Swigart mentioned he is a writer and early hypertext author, and noted he’s working on creating a language for a climate fiction series.
Elijah Schwirian briefly introduced himself as a philosophy student working on a PhD in anti-corruption, expressing interest in text.
Jimmy Sixdof expressed interest in immersive analytics and the presentation of high-dimensional complicated ideas in 3D text space, mentioning he’s developing his own apps in this area.
Alan Laidlaw asked Ken Perlin about blending game mechanics with knowledge exploration and mentioned his work on puzzle interfaces involving magnetic words and active reading techniques.
Karl Hebenstreit introduced himself as working at the US General Services Administration and as a PhD student at Fielding Graduate University, studying Organizational Development and Change with a focus on extending Engelbart’s work on human capabilities augmentation.
Abhirami Ajith Kumar briefly introduced herself as a PhD scholar researching experimental narratives, textuality, and reading modalities, mentioning her current work on book labyrinths and text puzzles.
AI: Topics Discussed
WebXR was discussed as the foundation for the prototypes being developed by the group. Fabien Benetou demonstrated a companion prototype accessible via WebXR that works in Quest 3 and Vision Pro headsets. He explained how URLs could be used to customize WebXR environments without changing code, enabling sharing of modified environments via chat. Leon demonstrated XR fragments for controlling 3D models via URLs within WebXR, showing how interactions could be added without additional code. Brandel mentioned his work on web standards including WebXR, describing it as an “exceptionally useful prototyping platform” but something he hopes can be evolved into a more flexible future for web development. Fabien noted that AR/MR is supported in WebXR on Quest devices through passthrough, though the project currently focuses on VR as AR isn’t fully supported by WebXR yet. The group also discussed the networked-aframe library for multi-user synchronized views, though the current year’s focus was on individual rather than social explorations.
Gestures were discussed as one of several interface options for XR environments. Frode noted that operating systems are claiming more and more gestures, creating potential for “gesture clash” where casual hand movements are misinterpreted as commands. He pointed out that gestures need to be natural or easy to learn, and remembering complex gesture sets can be difficult. Hand tracking was mentioned as a key interaction method, with Fabien noting that users can grab and interact with elements in the headset environment. The demonstrations showed various interactions including pinching to select, drawing, and moving objects in space. Keyboard combinations with gestures were discussed as a power user option, though Fabien noted this creates a learning curve similar to VI versus Notepad.
The symposium was briefly mentioned by Stella Wisdom, who recalled attending the very first Future of Text symposium and expressed regret at not attending more of them over the years. She mentioned that the first symposium occurred shortly after her department at the British Library had been established. Elijah Schwirian mentioned being able to make the previous symposium. No specific details about upcoming symposia were discussed in this meeting.
There was no significant discussion of a book project in this meeting. Rob Swigart and Elijah Schwirian briefly mentioned creating languages for fiction works they’re writing, but this wasn’t connected to a formal book project related to the Future of Text initiative.
Visual-Meta was briefly mentioned by Frode when discussing the importance of open, discoverable information sharing. He stated “the whole what we do with the visual meta thing is basically basically BibTeX plus, right?” This suggests Visual-Meta is a system for enhanced citation and metadata, but the concept wasn’t elaborated on further during this meeting.
Timelines were mentioned briefly by Frode when discussing the workspace visualization. He referred to different ways of organizing information in space, mentioning “We have a list. We kind of have a timeline. We have a cube.” This suggests timelines are one potential organization method for knowledge objects in the XR environment being developed, but the concept wasn’t explored in depth during this meeting.
Other topics discussed
The concept of a “cube” as a metaphor for authoring and organizing knowledge in XR
Interface options for XR environments, including HUDs, action cubes, tool belts, and floating control panels
Methods for folding and unfolding information in 3D space
Representation of citations and academic work in spatial environments
Design approaches for born-virtual objects versus skeuomorphic representations
Techniques for parameterizing 3D objects to encode information
The future of social interactions in XR environments
Data synchronization between XR environments and server-side storage
The importance of shared visual experiences in multi-user XR
Preservation of digital artifacts in VR environments
The use of XR fragments to add interactivity to 3D models
Navigation methods in multidimensional information spaces
The importance of connections and relationships between knowledge objects
Interesting anecdotes
Ken Perlin shared that he visited the Amazon rainforest in 1992, which inspired him to write a short story and subsequently create a “kinetic poetry” Java applet in 1996 that allowed users to interact with words and phrases from his story. He demonstrated this 29-year-old application that was still functional, which impressed participants given the challenges of maintaining working demos over time.
Stella Wisdom mentioned that she had been temporarily promoted for the next four months, covering Ian Cook’s position as interim head of Contemporary British Publications collections, while Ian was temporarily heading Contemporary British collections.
Frode mentioned learning that day that the human cortex, if unfolded from its 2-4mm thickness, would be about the size of a work desk, which he found to be a beautiful metaphor for thinking about folding and unfolding information.
AI: Concepts Introduced
Cube (Frode Hegland): A metaphorical and practical interface for knowledge work in XR. Defined as “your manuscript meaning unpublished work… your notepad… your word processor… your workbench… where you make new knowledge.”
Knowledge Objects (Frode Hegland): “A thing which represents a piece of knowledge, such as what was originally a PDF. You can see it either as a dot or as title, a name, or as a small PDF.”
Annotation (Frode Hegland): “Your view of what it is so that you can make an annotated bibliography. It is not highlighting a lot of stuff. It is almost like a yellow post-it at the back of a paper document that can then be used later.”
Workspace (Frode Hegland): “Everything except for your cube.”
Binder (Frode Hegland): “The same as proceedings. Let’s say the ACM hypertext 2025 proceedings. That is a collection of articles.”
XR Singularity (Ken Perlin): The point, likely within single-digit years, when XR devices become socially invisible in the same way smartphones are today, when “we’re basically going to be wearing these things or something like this.”
Born Virtual Objects (Dene Grigar/Brandel Zachernuk): Objects created specifically for virtual environments without physical world equivalents, contrasted with skeuomorphic representations of physical objects.
XR Fragments (Leon van Kammen): A technology that “allows controlling 3D models via URLs in a read-only way,” enabling interactions with 3D models without additional code.
AI: People Mentioned
Ian Cook, mentioned by Stella Wisdom as her colleague at the British Library whose position she is temporarily covering while he is covering the head of contemporary British collections position.
Doug Engelbart, mentioned by Karl Hebenstreit as the subject of his dissertation, building on Engelbart’s 1962 paper about human capabilities augmentation system.
Mark Bernstein, mentioned by Peter Wasilko as someone he met at Macworld Boston, connecting him to the hypertext community.
Vannevar Bush, mentioned by Tom Haymes in reference to the concept of “breadcrumbs” and the Memex.
Ted Nelson, mentioned by Tom Haymes in reference to Xanadu and the concept of infinite connections.
Deena Larsen, mentioned by Dene Grigar in the chat log regarding posting a video clip of Larsen’s hand-made Pinwheel in The NEXT.
Richard Holeton, mentioned by Dene Grigar in the chat log regarding posting a clip of Holeton’s beach ball.
Elon Musk, mentioned by Dene Grigar in a private message to Frode about receiving emails related to Trump.
Donald Trump, mentioned by Dene Grigar in a private message about receiving propaganda emails.
BPNichol, mentioned by Dene Grigar as someone who was doing similar work to Ken’s kinetic poetry in the early 90s using Unix.
Jean-Pierre Volpe, mentioned by Dene Grigar as someone working in Paris in the early 90s on approaches to poetry similar to Ken’s work.
Philippe Boots, mentioned by Dene Grigar as someone working in the early 90s on approaches to poetry similar to Ken’s work.
Matas Ubarevicius, potentially mentioned in relation to a presentation on parametric design, based on a URL shared in the chat log.
Mel Brooks, referenced by Tom Haymes in a joke about “the peasants are revolting.”
AI: Product or Company Names Mentioned
British Library, mentioned by Stella Wisdom as her workplace and by Dene Grigar in relation to an upcoming visit.
Mississippi State University, mentioned by Karl Arthur Smink as where he is a PhD student.
New York University, mentioned by Ken Perlin as where he is a professor of computer science.
Future Reality Lab, mentioned by Ken Perlin as his research lab focusing on shared mixed and blended reality.
US General Services Administration, mentioned by Karl Hebenstreit as his workplace.
Fielding Graduate University, mentioned by Karl Hebenstreit as where he is pursuing his PhD.
IIT Kanpur (Indian Institute of Technology Kanpur), mentioned by Abhirami Ajith Kumar as her academic institution.
Idea Spaces, mentioned by Tom Haymes as an organization he founded.
Senate House, mentioned by Stella Wisdom as the location for an upcoming conference.
Open University, mentioned by Dene Grigar as a place she will be giving a talk.
The NEXT, mentioned by Dene Grigar as her digital preservation project for electronic literature.
Quest 3, mentioned by Fabien Benetou and Ken Perlin as a VR headset they use for demonstrations.
Vision Pro, mentioned by Fabien Benetou as a headset on which their WebXR prototype works well.
Sloan Foundation, mentioned by Frode Hegland as a funder for their work.
Insomnium, mentioned by Peter Wasilko as the API testing application he was using in his demonstration.
EMACS, mentioned by Peter Wasilko as “the one true editor” in a joking comment.
BBEdit, mentioned by Peter Wasilko in reference to the slogan “BBEdit Doesn’t Suck.”
Whole Foods, mentioned by Ken Perlin as an example of a place people wouldn’t wear XR headsets currently.
Meta, mentioned by Karl Arthur Smink as a potential target for grant applications related to academic VR apps.
Valve, mentioned by Karl Arthur Smink as a potential target for grant applications related to academic VR apps.
Epic Games, mentioned by Karl Arthur Smink as a potential target for grant applications related to academic VR apps.
Twitter, mentioned by Dene Grigar in a private message about Elon Musk using former Twitter users’ email addresses.
Java, mentioned by Ken Perlin in reference to his 1996 Java applet for kinetic poetry.
macworld Boston, mentioned by Peter Wasilko as where he met Mark Bernstein.
ACM hypertext, mentioned by Frode Hegland in his example of a “binder” being like “the ACM hypertext 2025 proceedings.”
Fifth Avenue store, mentioned by Brandel Zachernuk in reference to a cube project he worked on.
Space Balls, mentioned by Peter Wasilko in reference to a potential sequel.
AI: Other
The transcript reveals an interesting balance between theory and practical implementation in the development of spatial computing interfaces for text. While there are ambitious conceptual discussions about knowledge representation in space, the participants are also grounding their work in functional prototypes and demonstrations. The collaboration between academics, technologists, and designers illustrates a multidisciplinary approach to reimagining text in XR environments.
It’s notable that preservation concerns are prominent – both in Dene’s work on The NEXT project and in the broader discussions about formats and standards. There seems to be an awareness that creating truly useful knowledge tools requires consideration of longevity and interoperability.
The meeting also illustrates the challenges of remote collaboration on spatial computing projects, with some demonstrations working better than others in the video conference format, highlighting the gap between experiencing XR environments firsthand versus trying to communicate about them in 2D.
Chat Log URLs
https://futuretextlab.info/2025/02/17/what-is-a-knowledge-object-in-xr-2/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/karlhebenstreitjr/
https://the-next.eliterature.org/visualizations/
https://frl.nyu.edu/recent-publications/
https://futuretextlab.info/authorship/
https://companion.benetou.fr/index.html?set_IDenvironment_visible=false&showfile=Apartment.glb
https://github.com/AnagataCetana/insomnium
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Editor_war
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/editors.mp3
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0123755/
https://github.com/networked-aframe/networked-aframe
https://futuretextlab.info/2024/12/16/13-jan-2025/
https://futuretextlab.info/2024/12/10/december-9th-presentation-by-matas-ubarevicius/
Chat Log Summary
The chat log complemented the verbal discussion with additional resources, clarifications, and side conversations. Multiple URLs were shared, including links to personal websites, research labs, and project demonstrations. There were discussions about interface design concepts, particularly around cubes and folding information, with participants sharing images and sketches. Several technical references were exchanged regarding WebXR implementation and parametric design. The chat included some humor around editor preferences (EMACS vs others) and cultural references. Private messages between organizers showed coordination of the meeting flow and concerns about staying on topic. Some participants used the chat to ask questions or provide additional context to verbal comments, particularly regarding technical implementations and conceptual frameworks. There were also several images shared that depicted cube-based interfaces and other visual concepts related to the discussion.
Why is the topic of the future of spaces in XR important?
The topic of future spaces in XR is important because it represents a fundamental shift in how humans interact with information and knowledge. Traditional two-dimensional interfaces like books, screens, and papers have inherent limitations in representing complex relationships between ideas. XR environments offer the potential to leverage human spatial cognition and embodied understanding to create more intuitive ways of organizing, manipulating, and comprehending information.
As Ken Perlin suggested with his concept of an “XR singularity,” we’re approaching a time when spatial computing may become as ubiquitous as smartphones, fundamentally changing how knowledge work is performed. The discussions in this meeting highlight the need to develop thoughtful interfaces and interaction paradigms before that widespread adoption occurs.
For academic work specifically, which was a focus of this meeting, XR spaces could transform how research is conducted, how citations and references are managed, and how complex ideas are communicated. The cube concept presented by Frode offers a way to bridge personal notetaking with formal academic publishing in a spatial environment.
Additionally, as Brandel and Dene discussed, there’s a tension between recreating physical objects in virtual space and creating truly “born virtual” experiences that take full advantage of the medium. Resolving this tension is crucial for developing XR environments that feel both intuitive and innovative.
Finally, the preservation concerns raised by Dene with The NEXT project highlight the importance of developing standards and approaches that will ensure the longevity of knowledge in these new spatial formats, preventing the loss of important work as technologies evolve.