Chat Log | Video
The team discussed a range of topics, from trips to California and plans for a Slack channel, to the technical challenges of transferring real user data seamlessly between devices. They also discussed the possibility of using WebDAV or a web server approach to manage and serve documents, and the need for a balanced project team with clear goals. The team also emphasized the importance of keeping an open mind to new ideas and prioritizing accessibility and interaction over data transmission. They concluded with a discussion on the main priorities and challenges of their project, focusing on creating a unique experience different from the traditional PDF format.
Grant Celebration and Future Plans
Dene mentioned that Rob Swigert would be visiting them and that Frode would be visiting in the second week of January. They celebrated a grant they received and discussed potential trips to California and plans for a Slack channel and other systems in January. Frode discussed the issue of expensive internet at their summerhouse and the engagement they have received from the community. They also discussed a potential project in Dene’s lab focusing on preservation and accessibility of art-based items, and the importance of accessibility for people with disabilities. They also discussed the potential use of Apple headsets for future use and plans for a competition for students. Finally, they discussed potential legal issues regarding the location of documents and the importance of crediting contributions within their community.
XR Document Management Plan Discussed
Frode proposed a plan to handle documents in Xr which involves a server providing data to the Xr system. Fabien raised concerns about the source of the reader software, to which Frode responded that it was proprietary but offered to open-source it if necessary. Leon suggested the idea of having files on the letter, which triggered memories of a previous suggestion about a tiny web server. Adam concurred, suggesting that a web server could be a cross-platform solution and could serve Webex or other content. Frode concluded by emphasizing that their passion for visual matter should not hinder the development process.
WebDAV and Web Server Document Management
The team discussed the possibility of using WebDAV or a web server approach to manage and serve documents. Fabien suggested listing documents in a directory or subdirectories and emphasized the importance of addressability and URIs. Frode proposed a system where users can edit metadata and save documents. Leon agreed with this idea, highlighting the potential performance benefits of offloading heavy tasks to a web server. Fabien also mentioned the possibility of using the headset as a web host to maintain data synchronization. Peter briefly mentioned a group called Extended Reality and its accountant and training resources, but this discussion was interrupted. Brandel clarified that it was possible to keep many laptops working even when their lids are closed, particularly if an external display is plugged in.
Data Transfer Technical Challenges
The team discussed the technical challenges of transferring real user data seamlessly between devices. Frode suggested focusing on real data and emphasized the importance of metadata. Leon advocated for prioritizing accessibility and interaction over data transmission. Brandel proposed a server-less approach, where devices would act as both client and server, and suggested using WebDAV as an interim solution. The team agreed to test WebDAV and considered using reader document highlights as a basis for metadata. The team also acknowledged the need to balance ideal solutions with practical ones, as they may not always have the resources to implement ideal solutions.
Project Division, Funding, and Features
Adam raised a question about the division of labor on a project, which Frode clarified, stating that Dene’s team would handle specific tasks requiring specialized knowledge and testing. Dene introduced Andrew Thompson, a programmer who has been working in their lab for three years and is currently leading the VR project. It was mentioned that Andrew would be provided with a new computer and start being paid in January when the grant funding begins. Brandel asked for clarification on the project’s expectations, to which Dene, Brandel, and Frode discussed the funding and programming aspects of their project. The possibility of adding extra features to their project, funded by an extra budget, was also discussed. Brandel suggested the idea of a web interface for submitting and surfacing resources and emphasized the need for a balanced project team with clear goals.
VR/XR Input Devices and Research Needs
Peter proposed the use of 6 degree of freedom input controller devices for VR/XR support, but Frode expressed concerns about the loss of unique XR benefits such as head stability and depth perception. Brandel suggested various interaction devices, but no decision was reached. The team concluded the discussion with Frode emphasizing the need for further research on navigating larger volumes of knowledge within headsets. Dene suggested setting stretch goals if initial targets are achieved, and shared their grant proposal to ensure everyone is aware of commitments and timelines. Dene also emphasized avoiding scope creep at the beginning of the project. Dene shared personal experiences and history with Alan, including living in Houston and New Orleans before having to leave due to water poisoning.
Open-Mindedness and Innovation in Project and Technology
The team discussed the importance of keeping an open mind to new ideas, even if they seem unusual, as they could lead to something brilliant. Frode suggested prioritizing new ideas as stretch goals and separating discussions by topic. The need to balance exploring new ideas with completing the current project was emphasized. The team also discussed the potential of multiple controllers being used simultaneously with the 3D connection technology, with a programmer working on the project on a reasonable budget. The idea of having two meetings a week – one focused on the project and another on the future direction of the technology – was proposed and agreed upon. The future of textbooks was also discussed, with a suggestion to separate author names from the content.
Synchronization Mechanism and Web Protocols Discussion
Frode set a deadline to complete the synchronization mechanism by the end of the year. Brandel proposed using web protocols such as websockets and suggested the unnecessary use of a space mouse in XR. Leon agreed and proposed a pragmatic approach involving a websocket server in reader or author and a websocket client on both ends. The team also discussed the importance of real-time connection and decided to defer the Web dev authentication aspects to a later iteration. They also considered the potential for synchronization between devices on the same network and the use of HTTP or HTTPS servers with WebDAV or Websocket for data retrieval and storage. Brandel pointed out the limitations of using open-source libraries and the difficulty of combining open-source development with augmented reality. Frode stressed the need to get data in and out quickly and expressed interest in compensating programmers who want to experiment with new ideas.
PDF Modification and Library Organization
Frode and Adam discussed modifying PDF documents and the importance of preserving original content. They agreed on the need for documentation and a live demo to verify progress. They also talked about separating the Webexr experience from the desktop experience while maintaining connection. The conversation concluded without a clear resolution on where to store metadata. Adam and Frode then discussed storing academic PDFs as a database and the issue of referring to other media, with Frode suggesting that this year they might tackle the problem of spam. They emphasized the need for library organization.
Project Priorities and Challenges
The team discussed the main priorities and challenges of their project, focusing on creating a unique experience different from the traditional PDF format. Frode emphasized the importance of a library to manage large volumes of items and suggested the use of a headset and field data for an interactive, immersive workspace. The team also discussed the use of various media types and the structure of their library, acknowledging the need for solutions for non-PDF documents. They agreed on the importance of user interface design before technology and the need for collaboration in setting standards. The team also discussed the allocation of grant money and the importance of team ownership over the project. They agreed to initially use the Hypertext corpus for testing and to focus on developing basic data transfer protocols before delving into more complex synchronization issues, incorporating user feedback for efficiency and value.
Data Transfer and AI Metadata Extraction Proposal
Peter proposed a data transfer mechanism that separates formatting from content, with the data packet containing an identifier for a grammar and a simple string indicating why the packet is being sent. The team discussed the potential complexities of this system and agreed to focus on the transmission mechanism. Frode suggested the potential of using AI to extract metadata from documents, emphasizing the importance of user interaction and choice. The team agreed on the need for a system that allows users to upload their own documents and the importance of manual AI analysis of documents to extract relevant information. The possibility of ACM providing additional data was also raised.
Next steps
• Explore solutions for storing and managing library data, including potential use of a database or file system.
• Consider implementing a globally unique identifier for documents to handle versioning and copyright issues.
• Continue to develop and experiment with the basic library structure and interactions.
• Explore the use of the hypertext corpus as an initial work corpus.
• Consider augmenting the corpus with additional metadata such as author, date, and other relevant information.
• Define the basic formatting for data communication.
• Frode will lobby ACM to open up the hypertext documents for public use.
• Mark will continue working on cleaning the documents and will consider corresponding with Adam and Peter about author data.
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